Miranda's Dream. ¡Por una Latino América fuerte!.- A Gran Colombia TL

[Omar20]

And so begins...

 

[Red_Galiray]

Do I smell an American-Colombian War? Because I think that's what I smell

Maybe you are smelling right...

And thus, another piece is born to play the game of the Great Powers.

Poor Cuba, so far from God, between the United States and Colombia.

So do I; any TL that screws America some is good in my eyes...

At the same time this forum is notably pro-US and pro-Britain, or at least that's been my impression. So I'm sure some future updates won't be good in the eyes of many.

Britain will get Oregon and lock the US out of the Pacific despite their negligible population out I the West?

So, butterflies. The Independence Wars go poorly for Spain, leads to crisis in the Peninsula so Wellington doesn't achieve as much and Napoleon has to leave more troops there, leads to Napoleon losing earlier and France coming out in a far stronger position, leads to the US getting cocky and deciding to fight against Britain, leads to the UK focusing on humiliating the US because they can't look weak in front of France, leads to the US losing disastrously and being forced to give a lot of territory to Britain, including Michigan, Wisconsin, and the Great Lakes. So, thanks to this the North is weaker, and the South dominates the Union more; consequently the major focus of colonization and settling is in Mexico. Immigrants do go to Oregon, but in lesser numbers. And when the Mexican-American War started Britain basically forced them to give up Oregon. Polk couldn't fight Mexico, France, and the UK all at the same time, so he had to agree. There are more Americans there, and they may attempt something, but the fact that the US recognized the entire territory as British makes pulling out a Texas unlikely. Hell, the Texians themselves couldn't pull out a Texas without starting a bloody war that the US won only after much sacrifice in both men and resources. Most American settlers will in due time assimilate and become subjects of the Queen. Those who could never do that will simply not go, especially now that California has been wrestled from Mexico and is open to them.

The Samana Bay naval base and dockyard must be giddy with all those new contracts.

Ditto Cartagena naval school...

Samana Bay was one of the naval bases Colombia gave to the British, and was later a focal point for French privateers during the Mexican-American War. So, yeah, they are feeling pretty happy about their investment. As for Cartagena, they are the main naval school of the Republic, and the place where Colombia's first Ironclad was built and launched.

And so begins...

I've got a feeling you will like next chapter, a history of crazy soldiers of fortune and filibusters starring Cuba and a certain Narciso López! But before that, there's the long awaited chapter on culture and literature, with a special focus on Colombia and Mexico.

 

[Nivek]

there's the long awaited chapter on culture and literature

A shame too early for sports, colombia would be a massive baseball nation thanks to venezuela and the carribean coast, and add Dominica and whatever happen to cuba

 

[Red_Galiray]

A shame too early for sports, colombia would be a massive baseball nation thanks to venezuela and the carribean coast, and add Dominica and whatever happen to cuba

I hadn't thought of that. Soccer would be probably popular around the South and Center, but a Colombia that controls the Caribbean would be a baseball superpower.

 

[Omar20]

A shame too early for sports, colombia would be a massive baseball nation thanks to venezuela and the carribean coast, and add Dominica and whatever happen to cuba

Like hell yeah! Colombia including Venezuela, Dominican Republic and Cuba? We will probably be the forever undefeated champion!

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

I wonder if Brazil and Gran Colombia are ever gonna battle it out for territory. In OTL Brazil took land from Colombia and Venezuela.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

I wonder if Brazil and Gran Colombia are ever gonna battle it out for territory. In OTL Brazil took land from Colombia and Venezuela.

For now thereth no reason. Their border is just endless jungle with seemingly little value.

I wonder if the rubber boom come second industrialization would lead to a lot of economic warfare around some hinterlands between Brazil and Colombia though.

 

[Nivek]

I wonder if Brazil and Gran Colombia are ever gonna battle it out for territory. In OTL Brazil took land from Colombia and Venezuela.

you mentioned it, for now there is not need but when rubber become a point...expect a diplomatic war between those Two

 

[Red_Galiray]

Like hell yeah! Colombia including Venezuela, Dominican Republic and Cuba? We will probably be the forever undefeated champion!

Maybe there could be a baseball tournament between all the countries of the Americas...

I wonder if Brazil and Gran Colombia are ever gonna battle it out for territory. In OTL Brazil took land from Colombia and Venezuela.

So, outright war is not likely because neither country can march troops over the jungle and sending ships to attack each other would be hard and impractical. But Brazil will probably still want those territories, especially once rubber becomes valuable.

For now thereth no reason. Their border is just endless jungle with seemingly little value.

I wonder if the rubber boom come second industrialization would lead to a lot of economic warfare around some hinterlands between Brazil and Colombia though.

you mentioned it, for now there is not need but when rubber become a point...expect a diplomatic war between those Two

Brazil is already highly suspicious of the Colombians due to their infamous Oriental Mission, which helped the Riograndese rebels. Britain and France both recognized Rio Grande because it served as a buffer between Brazil and La Plata, and Brazil firmly believes this to be Colombia's fault too. Relations between the two countries are bad to say the least, and neither is likely to back down should any territories be disputed. Especially embarrassing for Brazil is the fact that Rio Grande has often accepted Anglo-Colombian investment and advice - the presence of a Colombia-aligned state right there is infuriating. They would not accept any further intrusions into "their" territory. It will be interesting to see.

 

[Military tactics]

Who have larger navy united states or Colombia

 

[Nivek]

Who have larger navy united states or Colombia

At this point both might be even but USA would make more ship faster but colombia have mostly their officer cops intact(Not distrasous war)

 

[Red_Galiray]

Who have larger navy united states or Colombia

So, before the Mexican-American War the US Navy was poorly prepared for any kind of war, which helps to explain why the French were able to blow them out of the water. Traditionally, the US "has prepared for its wars after getting into them." The Mexican-American War was a clear example. The US didn't even have any steam ships, and most of the blockade ships were hastily converted commercial vessels, which further aggravated the woes of the US merchant navy. The war basically forced them into a crash course of navy construction, and by the end of the war the US had finally acquired steam ships of the line, sloops, and their first ironclads. These ironclads are "Pook's turtles", meaning that they are slow and cumbersome, and not really seaworthy. The war resulted in great losses for the navy, and for the moment the Colombian navy has overtook it as the largest in the Americas. But American industrial capacity is still greater, and given some time they should be able to retake the first spot.

On the other hand, Colombia has not been at war since the Colombo-Peruvian War, where the Peruvians won at sea. The Colombian pacific navy is tiny; their main efforts are in the Caribbean. Their possession of Hispaniola makes them maintain a powerful navy, which they model after the Royal Navy. The Colombians have steam ships, and have developed their own class of ironclads. Colombian dreams of empire made building up a navy a main priority of all governments from Cruz on; even in the midst of a political and economic crisis, Bonifaz made sure to dedicate funds to the naval program.

Summarizing, the US is smaller for now, but their industry would probably allow them to build more ships. Of course, both are peanuts when compared with Europe.

At this point both might be even but USA would make more ship faster but colombia have mostly their officer cops intact(Not distrasous war)

On the other hand, the Colombian officers corps are inexperienced.

 

[Nivek]

On the other hand, the Colombian officers corps are inexperienced.

But USA one are experience for another kind of war...that will be fun, but again better have more officers with theorical knowledge in the start, the whole cuban affair will be fun

 

[Red_Galiray]

But USA one are experience for another kind of war...that will be fun, but again better have more officers with theorical knowledge in the start, the whole cuban affair will be fun

That's true. The US quickly decided on commerce raiders to face the French, not really suitable for actual naval battles against the Colombians. Furthermore, Colombians are well known for their effective corsair campaigns, and their ports are heavily defended. Hispaniola is specially a fortress, considered impossible to invade. Colombians also have two great advantages over the US in the form of their allies: Britain, Mexico, and Chile. Britain is unlikely to actually come to the rescue like France did for Mexico, but they probably would not recognize any US blockade and the mere presence of the Royal Navy is enough to make the US think twice. And although they don't share naval intelligence with Colombia, British seamen and captains can often be found in the Colombian navy, and its naval academies. As for Mexico, they have thousands of veterans, including an entire army known throughout the world for stopping an amphibious assault, which Colombia can easily recruit. Lastly, Chile is the greatest naval power of the continent, and includes many experienced and able commanders, renowned for missions to China, Japan and other countries. Should a war start, Chilean navies would provide a helpful auxiliary.

 

[Red_Galiray]

So, I'm writing the update on popular culture and literature. If anyone has any information about a particular book or author of Latin America you'd like to see in the update, please mention it to me. Also, voting for the Turtledove award of this year has started! Please, consider supporting this TL!

 

[Nivek]

So, I'm writing the update on popular culture and literature. If anyone has any information about a particular book or author of Latin America you'd like to see in the update, please mention it to me. Also, voting for the Turtledove award of this year has started! Please, consider supporting this TL!

At this time colombia homegrowth literature was starting, la maria and amalia(this argentinan) are the first example of latin american romanticism and tragedy, the rest..most author will come in 20th century...so you could make even original literature at this time too.

Wonder...we colombian love music.more focus in music, both high(what we call classic, operas) and popular explode early in colombia?

 

[Deleted member 67076]

Im imagining this time period is full of romanticism in writing. Lots of backlash to industrialization and modern exploitative agriculture. I wonder if the Intelligentsia is thinking up the same positivist strains of thought in their liberalism and modernization efforts (albiet without the pessemism from playing catch up).

 

[Nivek]

Im imagining this time period is full of romanticism in writing. Lots of backlash to industrialization and modern exploitative agriculture. I wonder if the Intelligentsia is thinking up the same positivist strains of thought in their liberalism and modernization efforts (albiet without the pessemism from playing catch up).

I could imagine some novel about Dominica and how become colombian and the society, that would be something.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

I could imagine some novel about Dominica and how become colombian and the society, that would be something.

That'd be a big appeal to the old New Spain colonial era, mixed in with Colombian modernity. Would be pretty interesting to read and analyze.

 

[Red_Galiray]

At this time colombia homegrowth literature was starting, la maria and amalia(this argentinan) are the first example of latin american romanticism and tragedy, the rest..most author will come in 20th century...so you could make even original literature at this time too.

Wonder...we colombian love music.more focus in music, both high(what we call classic, operas) and popular explode early in colombia?

OTL, Santander did make efforts to create music academies and the like, and as the earliest literature is probably patriotic poems and odes, high music is likely going to be very popular early on.

Im imagining this time period is full of romanticism in writing. Lots of backlash to industrialization and modern exploitative agriculture. I wonder if the Intelligentsia is thinking up the same positivist strains of thought in their liberalism and modernization efforts (albiet without the pessemism from playing catch up).

There probably is a great degree of Colombian exceptionalism. Things like "we liberated all of Latin America singlehandedly". Progressives are most likely to express such sentiments, while conservatives will show the backlash you mention. A lot of nostalgia for Santander and Miranda too.