'Minus World: New Game Plus' — A Successful Philips SNES-CD Timeline

Speaking of Mario All-Stars, the game's source code from the gigaleak actually has references to two placeholder names of the game: Super Mario Zanmai... and Super Mario CD. (Source, in case you're interested.) Seems to have originally been a SNES-CD game, and I could see it working well as a pack-in title (remaking older games to show just how much more powerful the add-on is.) Through in some interviews with Miyamoto and Co. about the development of the originals and you can even show off the FMV capabilities!
The more I read the more I think Nintendo was very serious with Phillips but Phillips might have dropped the ball badly,itoi, square and now Miyamoto took CD for granted, I wonder what happened there,did Phillips fumble the ball trying to focus everything on CDI?

By the way, I've been planning out a Philips-Nintemdo of my own since summer 2022, only recently finding this thread. I've gotten a decent chunk of work up to 2000 done, though I'll admit there's a fair bit of stuff that I'm not really knowledgeable on some things. I'd be more than happy to share my ideas with you all, if you're willing!
Do it,we can help you with your timeline if you want it.
 
Speaking of Mario All-Stars, the game's source code from the gigaleak actually has references to two placeholder names of the game: Super Mario Zanmai... and Super Mario CD. (Source, in case you're interested.) Seems to have originally been a SNES-CD game, and I could see it working well as a pack-in title (remaking older games to show just how much more powerful the add-on is.) Through in some interviews with Miyamoto and Co. about the development of the originals and you can even show off the FMV capabilities!

By the way, I've been planning out a Philips-Nintemdo of my own since summer 2022, only recently finding this thread. I've gotten a decent chunk of work up to 2000 done, though I'll admit there's a fair bit of stuff that I'm not really knowledgeable on some things. I'd be more than happy to share my ideas with you all, if you're willing!
Can't wait to see what you've got in store for your Nintendo-Philips TL! And yes, I'm willing to see your ideas for this.
 
The more I read the more I think Nintendo was very serious with Phillips but Phillips might have dropped the ball badly,itoi, square and now Miyamoto took CD for granted, I wonder what happened there,did Phillips fumble the ball trying to focus everything on CDI?
Yeah, Philips didn't fully know what they were doing with the CD-i. Sure, nowadays people know it for being the home of crap like Hotel Mario and random educational games, but Philips intended for it to be the start of a new age of multimedia devices. I think Nintendo and Philips entering negotiations earlier and Nintendo encouraging Philips to cancel the CD-i and focus on the SNES-CD fully would be the best course of action. Hell, you could probably name the combo unit the CD-i!
Do it,we can help you with your timeline if you want it.
Can't wait to see what you've got in store for your Nintendo-Philips TL! And yes, I'm willing to see your ideas for this.
Hehe, thanks, I appreciate it! One of my biggest thoughts is something Nivek brought up before; having Nintendo "train" the developers at Philips Interactive Media so that they can pump out some higher-quality titles. Say, the Super Mario's Wacky Worlds's devs show Nintendo R&D 1 a demo, R&D 1's been working on their own SMW sequel but thinks Philips has some good ideas and decide to work on the game together, showing Philips staff the "Nintendo way" of development and strengthening the relationship between the two companies. They'd work on some games with Nintendo's properties before branching out and making some of their series. I have other ideas in mind, but I've typing this on my phone while riding the bus and would prefer to get on my computer.
(As for my own TL, I'll likely start a thread for it in the second half of this year. I graduate high school in June and wanna focus more energy on that than my personal interests. Glad to hear y'all are interested in it, though!)
 
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Yeah, Philips didn't fully know what they were doing with the CD-i.
Truly it Was, Philips intention Washington to release their first cdi machina by 1988( the same year they codified with Sony the cd-rom-XA format alongside the yellow book) yet it wasn't till 1991...that show a minor development hell.

Philips to cancel the CD-i and
That would be the perfect pod,realizing the CD-i is a mess and better focusing in this new project.


Say, the Super Mario's Wacky Worlds's devs show Nintendo R&D 1 a demo, R&D 1's been working on their own SMW sequel but thinks Philips has some good ideas and decide to work on the game together, showing Philips staff the "Nintendo way"
According the accounts Nintendo did was supervising wacky world's before the project collapse and they did lend Mario and Zelda ip to finish the contract ,meaningful Nintendo did was serious.


As for my own TL, I'll likely start a thread for it in the second half of this year. I graduate high school in June and wanna focus more energy on that than my personal interests. Glad to hear y'all are interested in it, though
Waiting for it buddy, good Luck in YouTube final weeks.
 
And Everyone, Added the SNES-CD specs on a public dropbox link https://www.dropbox.com/s/xw6rjl8o3q4n8gb/SNES CD-ROM System - 1993.pdf?dl=0
The thing I find most interesting are the use of caddies with a lock out chip and SRAM. Would it really be worth their time to include copy protection like that? CD burners were  incredibly expensive up until the late 90's. And you'd need an empty caddy to play audio CD's, and I'd say it is pretty annoying to swap discs in and out of caddies. 1993 was around the time caddies were going out of style, so it'd look antiquated too. They'd also increase the cost of manufacturing. Overall, I'd recommend Nintendo and Philips not use disc caddies.
 
The thing I find most interesting are the use of caddies with a lock out chip and SRAM. Would it really be worth their time to include copy protection like that?
I think Nintendo was doing it as a Reaction to Kutaragi's Backstab(remember This is the Philips model, not the Sony one that was found almost 8 years ago) and a way they could control who made their Discs. ITTL if the POD happens before Sony, they would avoid the caddies.. plus measures to fight piracy, like CD Burst Cutting measures(IF SEGA was able to make the SATURN unable to get pirate discs till almost 23 years after the system was released, Nintendo and one of the CD Co-Creators could provide a solution to it.

So if Phillips is thoroughly committed to the CD add-on, they could convince Nintendo to drop Caddies in Exchange for other anti-piracy measures(Burst Cutting Keys and the authentication key being on the console could work and suffice).

CD burners were  incredibly expensive up until the late 90's.
For Consumers...For Organized crime on the other hand... and as said before, it was Both Anti-Piracy and production Control. Seems Nintendo wasn't taking any chances when it mean to piracy.
 
Ah, I understand better now, thank you.
ITTL if the POD happens before Sony
Speaking of which, if we take the "Nintendo seeks out Philips first instead of Sony" approach, what would that mean for Sony? Would they try to partner with Sega or some other company, or strike out on their own? Perhaps even give up on the video game industry as a whole? The SNES would likely have a different, possibly Philips-produced sound chip instead of the SPC-700 as well, since that was a major component of the Sony deal.
Personally, I find the idea of Sony pitching the SPC-700 to Sega for use in the Sega CD to be intriguing, though that's just me and I'd certainly want to see what y'all think.
 
Speaking of which, if we take the "Nintendo seeks out Philips first instead of Sony" approach, what would that mean for Sony? Would they try to partner with Sega or some other company, or strike out on their own?
Knowing that Kutaragi was the one who pushed videogames to begin with(he was the one who approached Nintendo, not Ohga or someone else), he would still try hard, reminding Kutaragi was on the MSX development Team another videogame link, so is when than an IF. Reminder, Sony Shipped the SPC-700 Development kits straight to third parties, bypassing Nintendo and Intelligent Systems(as Tohru Narahiro lives in Tokyo, he was Nintendo's natural intermediary with third parties) altogether, meaning Ohga and co authorized Kutaragi's backstabbing plans. ITTL might start from scratch rather than their little trick with SNES APU

ompany, or strike out on their own? Perhaps even give up on the video game industry as a whole? The SNES would likely have a different, possibly Philips-produced sound chip instead of the SPC-700 as well, since that was a major component of the Sony deal.
Personally, I find the idea of Sony pitching the SPC-700 to Sega for use in the Sega CD to be intriguing, though that's just me and I'd certainly want to see what y'all think.
That would be Hilarious if they're a company made to be screwed is SEGA. That's a possibility.
 
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That would be Hilarious if they're a company made to be screwed is SEGA. That's a possibility.
What would be even more hilarious is if after pitching the SPC-700 to Sega for use in the Mega-CD (or Sega CD in North America), Sony comes to Sega with the pitch of a new CD-based game console, only for Sega to turn them down like IOTL with both the Nintendo-Sony deal and the Sega-Sony deal.
 
What would be even more hilarious is if after pitching the SPC-700 to Sega for use in the Mega-CD (or Sega CD in North America), Sony comes to Sega with the pitch of a new CD-based game console, only for Sega to turn them down like IOTL with both the Nintendo-Sony deal and the Sega-Sony deal.
I could see that happening, especially if the Sega CD doesn't live up to Sega's expectations. Though Sony could give the add-on more killer apps, something it very much lacked, or push SoJ and SoA to make amends. Like, OTL's Sega CD was designed by SoJ and JVC without the knowledge of Sega of America entirely.
Oh yeah, there were a lot of weird hardware variations, like that portable CD player that's also a Genesis. Other than Philips, the only other company Nintendo  might license the SNES-CD tech out to is Sharp, who OTL and TTL made those TV's with an NES/Famicom built-in and the Twin Famicom (a Famicom with the Disk System built-in.) Maybe they'd make a Twin Super Famicom in Japan?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System_models#Sharp-produced_variants
 
I could see that happening, especially if the Sega CD doesn't live up to Sega's expectations. Though Sony could give the add-on more killer apps, something it very much lacked, or push SoJ and SoA to make amends. Like, OTL's Sega CD was designed by SoJ and JVC without the knowledge of Sega of America entirely.
Oh yeah, there were a lot of weird hardware variations, like that portable CD player that's also a Genesis.
Plus They later on Could Release the cheaper version of the SEGA-CD thanks to co-owning the CD License and Economics of Scale(Something Sega has issues with early CD players as they have to pay twice the CD development and license fee, for better or worse all the mega CD did end up pay up for the Saturn even if Saturn got another myriad of backstage issue) if they bother to support it. (I think SEGA secrecy for better or worse did pay off, after what EA did to SoA, they did keep more control in their hardware with their secrecy)

Other than Philips, the only other company Nintendo  might license the SNES-CD tech out to is Sharp, who OTL and TTL made those TV's with an NES/Famicom built-in and the Twin Famicom (a Famicom with the Disk System built-in.) Maybe they'd make a Twin Super Famicom in Japan?
And an Integrated TV with SNES-CD too, also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Famicom_Naizou_TV_SF1 was ready to admit peripherals so that would be interesting too

I can see Phillips making the Pal Version of the SNES-CD and combo set later on.

Any other idea or suggestion to share Lario?
 
And an Integrated TV with SNES-CD too, also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Famicom_Naizou_TV_SF1 was ready to admit peripherals so that would be interesting too
I knew about the SF1, but I wasn't aware it actually supported the expansion slot! That's pretty interesting...
I can see Phillips making the Pal Version of the SNES-CD and combo set later on.
That makes sense, since they are Dutch and all. Honestly, Philips could help Nintendo get a stronger foothold in Europe, making some games aimed more towards Europeans and helping with localization.
Any other idea or suggestion to share Lario?
A few, yes!
  • I've seen previous mentions on this thread about "expansion discs" adding new content to existing games, a la the 64DD, but the only way I could see that working is if the HANDS cartridge has a pass-through for other carts (think Lock-On technology.) Otherwise, HANDS takes up the whole slot, and it's essential since it contains the coprocessor and RAM.
  • Philips could also push Nintendo towards more multimedia stuff, like what they were trying to do with the CD-i OTL but at a slower pace and with more thought behind it. I remember Yamauchi was very keen on "connecting all Nintendo users in Japan" in OTL and Nintendo tried with Randnet, but Philips could convince Nintendo to conncect Nintendo fans globally and do more with online during the 5th and 6th generations (well, as much with online as you could at that point in time lol). Mario Paint/Mario Artist could fit into that as well.
  • Obviously we're not there yet, but I wonder what SGI will end up doing. Do they go with Nintendo like OTL, with Sega like P2S, or someone else entirely?
  • Hotel Mario, from what I've heard, is actually a decently fun, arcadey game! It's just... well, the cutscenes that sour its reputation. If you had better-animated cutscenes and different voice direction (either Martinet or the Walker Boone/Tony Rosato soundalikes from an unused sound file,) it'd probably be remembered more as a very weird and cheesy yet genuinely fun Mario title.
  • Link: The Faces of Evil and Zelda: Wand of Gamelon were legitimately not good, even without the bad CD-i controller there was a lot of BS design elements. However, there are some fan remakes of them that actually alter a lot of the more questionable design choices. They're actually decent-ish Zelda games now! It's just that the potential was kind of squandered in our timeline. Again, giving them some additional polish could make them genuinely well-liked titles instead of the "exceptions to the rule" in terms of quality for their respective franchises.
  • Philips Interactive Media would likely be able to prevent Infogrames from purchasing them in 1997. In fact, I could see Philips eventually buying out Rareware due to proximity and since they're the reason Nintendo and Philips began working together in the first place.
That's about all I have for right now. I would also ask about Atari and the 3DO, but I don't know much about them and couldn't offer any real input.
 
knew about the SF1, but I wasn't aware it actually supported the expansion slot! That's pretty interesting...
It was, seems Sharp was full in the Super Famicom would be a mega success like Famicom and realized Nintendo was big on giving it add-ons too.

That makes sense, since they are Dutch and all. Honestly, Philips could help Nintendo get a stronger foothold in Europe, making some games aimed more towards Europeans and helping with localization.
Yeah, that helps a lot, plus having the games be localised in Dutch earlier than OTL too, plus being a company already with distribution networks helps massively.

I've seen previous mentions on this thread about "expansion discs" adding new content to existing games, a la the 64DD, but the only way I could see that working is if the HANDS cartridge has a pass-through for other carts (think Lock-On technology.) Otherwise, HANDS takes up the whole slot, and it's essential since it contains the coprocessor and RAM.
The idea is that because Nintendo is more serious with the SNES-CD, the Expansion port is improved to be bigger and have bigger bandwidth, so all can be added on the bottom Case of the SNES, leaving the cartridge port open, the idea was the disc interact with the cartridges, ie expansion discs for the already released Cartridge games, so early adopters don't feel they wasted money in early games(and avoid cartridge unsold inventories too), but that depends how you want to make the add-on, but there another detail I want to share under...

Philips could also push Nintendo towards more multimedia stuff, like what they were trying to do with the CD-i OTL but at a slower pace and with more thought behind it. I remember Yamauchi was very keen on "connecting all Nintendo users in Japan" in OTL and Nintendo tried with Randnet, but Philips could convince Nintendo to conncect Nintendo fans globally and do more with online during the 5th and 6th generations (well, as much with online as you could at that point in time lol). Mario Paint/Mario Artist could fit into that as well.
FUN FACT: Yamauchi was pushing the internet since the Famicom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Computer_Network_System, but seems it was too early he did try hard, in fact, the original plans for the SNES was a modem that ended up evolving into the Satellaview. did very slow internet speeds and adoption in Japan and/or the failure of Sega own internet plans in the 16-bit generation https://segaretro.org/Sega_Mega_Modem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Meganet might have made Yamauchi steer to the faster satellite streaming. The original plans for SNES were interesting( a Motorola 68K, the CD and modem expansion, dunno if both working together or separately) but if the CD ADD-ON is working as intended. i can see Yamauchi pushing the internet as the next big step, either for SNES or the next console. Dunno.

Hotel Mario, from what I've heard, is actually a decently fun, arcadey game! It's just... well, the cutscenes that sour its reputation. If you had better-animated cutscenes and different voice direction (either Martinet or the Walker Boone/Tony Rosato soundalikes from an unused sound file,) it'd probably be remembered more as a very weird and cheesy yet genuinely fun Mario title.
Fun Fact, Hotel Mario is just a reworked version of Enix's Classic game Door Door. In fact, that's why the gameplay itself is decent, the rest was rushed to use the Mario license Nintendo granted to Phillips
So Hotel Mario might be butterflied away but maybe Phillips convince Enix to Revive Door Door or as you can't patent gameplay, they just make their own Modern take on Door Door? With or without Mario?

Link: The Faces of Evil and Zelda: Wand of Gamelon were legitimately not good, even without the bad CD-i controller there was a lot of BS design elements. However, there are some fan remakes of them that actually alter a lot of the more questionable design choices. They're actually decent-ish Zelda games now! It's just that the potential was kind of squandered in our timeline. Again, giving them some additional polish could make them genuinely well-liked titles instead of the "exceptions to the rule" in terms of quality for their respective franchises.
Those might be fully butterflied away, Miyamoto himself was very protective of Zelda(that was his baby vs the company man Mario seems to be for him) and without the need to terminate Phillips's contract, those games are not needed. but Maybe Phillips convince Miyamoto to co-produce a Zelda CD game(Yamauchi might also want one in the add-on too)?

Obviously we're not there yet, but I wonder what SGI will end up doing. Do they go with Nintendo like OTL, with Sega like P2S, or someone else entirely?
Dunno, we know they did try to work with SEGA otl before veering to Nintendo when SEGA refused their proposal(some of SEGA objections were valid but i still think Sega could and should have tried harder with SGI, but with the managerial mess Sega was..they could have ended up with even more issues than OTL N64). They could offer it to Sony? Nintendo as OTL? Panasonic/3DO? someone else? dunno that butterfly could be interesting.

That's about all I have for right now. I would also ask about Atari and the 3DO, but I don't know much about them and couldn't offer any real input.
Atari is a mess and Trammiel destroyed any chance atari had to make a console internally even buying flare Technology didn't help as Jack did meddle a lot in their projects, plus Trammiel Japanophobia would be a disaster as Japan become the videogame centre post crash. 3DO/Hawkins have the issue that he wanted a hardware standard for the project when he should have pushed for the earlier multiplatform engine but also 3DO lacking a real third party made price cuts more difficult as companies weren't willing to eat up losses as they wouldn't get the same software royalties Nintendo and SEGA GOT OTL. Later on, Panasonic tried but was too late. Dunno with them
 
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The idea is that because Nintendo is more serious with the SNES-CD, the Expansion port is improved to be bigger and have bigger bandwidth, so all can be added on the bottom Case of the SNES, leaving the cartridge port open, the idea was the disc interact with the cartridges, ie expansion discs for the already released Cartridge games, so early adopters don't feel they wasted money in early games(and avoid cartridge unsold inventories too), but that depends how you want to make the add-on, but there another detail I want to share under...
Oh, I see! That makes a lot of sense, thank you for clarifying. It actually sounds like a much better implentation, all things considered...
Fun Fact, Hotel Mario is just a reworked version of Enix's Classic game Door Door. In fact, that's why the gameplay itself is decent, the rest was rushed to use the Mario license Nintendo granted to Phillips
So Hotel Mario might be butterflied away but maybe Phillips convince Enix to Revive Door Door or as you can't patent gameplay, they just make their own Modern take on Door Door? With or without Mario?
W H A T.
Like, I knew the game's main theme is just taken from the 1933 film Little Women but I didn't know the very gameplay was plagiarized!
(unrelated but apparently you can patent gameplay, nintendo themselves did that with Ocarina of Time's Z-Targeting and an unimplemented compass system)
So Hotel Mario might be butterflied away but maybe Phillips convince Enix to Revive Door Door or as you can't patent gameplay, they just make their own Modern take on Door Door? With or without Mario?
Those might be fully butterflied away, Miyamoto himself was very protective of Zelda(that was his baby vs the company man Mario seems to be for him) and without the need to terminate Phillips's contract, those games are not needed. but Maybe Phillips convince Miyamoto to co-produce a Zelda CD game(Yamauchi might also want one in the add-on too)?
Understandable that they'd get butterflied, though I think that a sidescrolling Zelda game that builds upon Zelda II's formula is definitely in the cards, especially considering the SuperFX Zelda II project. Could end up as a coproduction, like you said.
 
W H A T.
Like, I knew the game's main theme is just taken from the 1933 film Little Women but I didn't know the very gameplay was plagiarized!
Not plagiarized, but much like I wouldn't be surprised if door door was an inspiration(maybe they change it to close doors than trapping enemies on the doors, to avoid getting sued for Enix) those are the legal grey areas always in copyright

Understandable that they'd get butterflied, though I think that a sidescrolling Zelda game that builds upon Zelda II's formula is definitely in the cards, especially considering the SuperFX Zelda II project. Could end up as a coproduction, like you said.
Very possible, if Nintendo did Lend Mario to Phillips for the failed wacky worlds OTL, ITTL if that success, Zelda could be next.
 
Dunno, we know they did try to work with SEGA otl before veering to Nintendo when SEGA refused their proposal(some of SEGA objections were valid but i still think Sega could and should have tried harder with SGI, but with the managerial mess Sega was..they could have ended up with even more issues than OTL N64). They could offer it to Sony? Nintendo as OTL? Panasonic/3DO? someone else? dunno that butterfly could be interesting.
Agreed. An ATL Sony PlayStation with the specs of OTL's N64 could very well be a interesting butterfly, though I wonder how Sega's less powerful Saturn and a ATL N64/Ultra with different specs would fare against a PlayStation that's more powerful than OTL.
 
Agreed. An ATL Sony PlayStation with the specs of OTL's N64 could very well be a interesting butterfly, though I wonder how Sega's less powerful Saturn and a ATL N64/Ultra with different specs would fare against a PlayStation that's more powerful than OTL.
While I agree that it would be interesting, I find it a bit unlikely that Sony would work with SGI, especially after getting burned by not only Nintendo but Sega as well (if we go the "Sony pitches the SPC-700 for the Sega/Mega CD but Sega later declines a partnership for the Saturn" route.) Plus Kutaragi might feel as though he's getting pushed to the side for outsiders, and I doubt Sony would want to lose the very person that got them into the video game industry in the first place. Though a more powerful PS1 could be more plausible while still being an interesting butterfly.
 
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