Ministry of Space, or Briiiiiits iiiiin Spaaaaace!
- Thread starter Mr.Bluenote
- Start date
FYI ---
I LOVE BRITS IN SPAAAAACE!
Thats as it should be.
i hope Bluenote doesnt mind, but i'm gonna use his social conservatives as my style of government in the AH.com planet thread.
Thanks, Birdy, I like to think the Blue Flash and Sky Rider names has a nice ring to them, especially in this ATL!
Yes, I found a website mentioning that possible Edinburgh-London and Edinburgh-Glasgow lines were under consideration, but I'm not sure how likely the construction of said lines actually are!
I think I'll delve deeper into the Soviet Collapse/Civil War and the situation around the old Soviet Empire and the Far East as well, including some stuff about brain drain and renewed waves of refugees. I suppose it's about high time we hear something about Japan as well!
And Poland too!
Ah, yes, the poor Russians seem to live in perpetual interesting times!So the USSR colapse more violently in TTL? That will be an interesting time.
A little bit niptick here. Since Berlin is in the People's Republic of Prussia, I think the capital of the German Federation will be elsewhere. I go for Frankfurt, the historical seat of the German Cofederation.
We're coming close to the close here didn't we?
I see more trouble broiling in the Far East as Sinkiang and Manchuria are without their master pulling their leashes, and China has its (American) master distract elsewhere.
I actually intended Berlin to be the capital of the expanded German Federation, but I can see how it reads, so I'll rewrite that part slightly!
I'll get around to India sooner or later (most likely later)! I'm rewriting a post on the Commonwealth at present! I'm at work so it seems like the sensible thing to do with my time!
Indeed, no war, just sabre rattling and stuff like that!
I'm glad you like it, Glen! Thanks!FYI ---
I LOVE BRITS IN SPAAAAACE!
Haha, quite so!
You're more than welcome to borrow, use, steal and/or rip off to your hearts contend, Birdy!
My regards!
- B.
Yes, or rather the French were involved in the US Space Programme. Now I can't remember if I wrote something to that extend in a previous post or I did so in one of the upcomming posts. Hmm, must be the old age that's playing tricks on my memory!
Ah, yes, Japan, I think they'll do fairly well, since they would have benifitted from the American involvement in the Chinese Civil War, but at the same time be less shall we say democratic due the American occupation being more interested in getting things to work (for the Americans) and the war in China rather than transforming the country.
Humbum, yes, the Japanese might do that, but I thing they'll be more earth bound so to say.
Regards and all!
- Bluenote.
The Commonwealth of Nations
No mercy, no power but its own controls it. Panting and snorting like a mad battle steed that has lost its rider, the masterless ocean overruns the globe!
- Herman Melville.
This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror.
- William Shakespeare, King John, Act 5, scene 7.
The Commonwealth of Nations has not always been the strong Confederation it is today! Before the War it was a voluntary and loose association of independent nations with neither power nor influence, nor any real responsibility. Even though the Commonwealth is still voluntary, it is so much more than it was originally intended.
The original Commonwealth was created by Britain and was meant to act like a forum for Britain itself, its Dominions and former colonies. Those times are, as we all know, long gone and the present Commonwealth is a strong political entity of its own. One thing hasn’t changed, though; in the past through times of trouble the countries of the Commonwealth of Nations have stood together, and today they still stand together as brothers on Earth as well as in outer space.
The object of the Commonwealth of Nations today is to advance democracy, economic relations, science, culture, social development within its member nations and to expand the influence of the Commonwealth as such.
With the Commonwealth Pact and the subsequent agreements on free trade, exchange of technology, manufactured goods, raw-materials, the 1955 Commonwealth Defence Alliance, the Custom Union and the monetary ditto in respectively 1957 and 1960, and other similar achievements, the Commonwealth had prospered.
One of the most important parts of the Commonwealth structure is the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, CSIRO, which was founded back in 1926. CSIRO has become the worlds largest and most diverse scientific research institution, and covers a broad range of areas of economic or social importance, including agriculture, minerals and energy, manufacturing, communications, construction, health, computer technology and of course space related research. CSIRO also coordinates the various national scientific programmes and adds additional funding if needed to programmes that has relevancy to the Commonwealth.
Another very influential and important part of the Commonwealth of Nations is the Commonwealth Space Agency. Created in 1980 to serves an umbrella organization for all the Commonwealth’s member nations respective space bureaus and agencies the CSA is now one of the largest and best founded parts of the Commonwealth structure. The CSA is responsible for the Moon bases and the Mars Mission and has a very close working relationship with CSIRO – most of the personnel often work for both agencies or are loaned to each other as a matter of routine. The CSA is purely civilian, but often cooperates with the various militaries in the Commonwealth.
All member nations recognise the British Queen as their own, and thus as the Head of the Commonwealth. The day to day business is run by a General-Secretary, who serve for maximum two consecutive 7-year terms, and the Commonwealth Council. The General-Secretary and the Council is appointed by the Commonwealth Parliament sited in Wellington, New Zealand, which members are elected by their native countries for 5 year terms. A large part of the role of the 731 members of Parliament is to pass legislation or amend existing legislation. The Council is located in Bombay, India. Modern day Commonwealth communication technology keeps the various parts of the Commonwealth governing body in close contact. The General-Secretary’s office is placed in Toronto, Canada.
The Commonwealth is a legacy from Britain's Imperial past, but changed profoundly during the last war-years and in the years immediately after it. The Empire had already given the countries of the British Commonwealth of Nations a legacy of shared language, and a common legal and political system. That sacred legacy was the foundation upon which the new Commonwealth was built.
The one man who can be attributed to creating the modern Commonwealth, as well as many other things, among them the unbroken string of Conservative PM’s and the enormously successful space programme, is, of course, Winston S. Churchill.
In the years running up to the War, the British had granted Canada, Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland total independence, even though they still were a part of the old pre-Churchillian Commonwealth, the relations were somewhat unequal, as between a benevolent, but arrogant Father and his Children. For instance the British was committed to defend the nations in the Commonwealth, while the participation of the Commonwealth nations in any British wars never was a given. Furthermore, the Commonwealth nations had little say in neither British domestic, foreign or military matters.
Churchill and his government in late 1945, after the horrendous diplomatic catastrophe known as the Yalta Conference, sat about to change all this. Some key colonies were immediately recognized as independent nations within the Commonwealth, now referred to as the Commonwealth of Nations, not just the British Commonwealth as before.
The entire political structure of the Empire was changed, but the true magnitude only became visible late in Churchill’s first post-war term and proclaimed in his famous so-called Empire-speech at the International Congress on Astronautics in 1951; “We must lose the Empire in order to preserve it. But it must be a different Empire, an Empire where we in the brotherhood that is the Commonwealth of Nations shall stand by each other in joy as well as sorrow! We must share all burdens and rewards equally for only as brothers can we survive and thrive in this new world, where an Iron Curtain has descended upon Eastern Europe and a Fortress of Ignorance arisen in the Americas. The eyes of the world now look to us, the Commonwealth of Nations to create a better future!” Those words will forever be imprinted in the minds of every citizen of the Commonwealth. His speech is even today, nearly 50 years later, recited with great affection at Commonwealth Day.
Churchill only just lived to see his Commonwealth of Nations taking off, with the emerging democracy in South Africa, a beginning peace in India and the forming of the Malaysian Confederation between Singapore, Malaya, Sabah (North Borneo), Brunei and Sarawak. Sadly he also oversaw the lowering of the British colours in Transjordan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Cameroun, Sudan, Gambia, Ceylon, Burma, the Gold Coast Togoland and several other places deemed either unfit or simply too impossible to keep in the Commonwealth. Even sadder is the criticism often placed upon Churchill and his cabinet for the decision to withdraw from so much of the Empire in such a fashion – the British “overnight” withdrawal often caused near civil war and genocides in the various locals evacuated. In a few special cases, locals deemed loyal and useful subjects were given time to relocated. In Palestine a purely humanitarian interest made the British evacuate whoever was interested to mostly Rhodesia, but also South Africa and Kenya. Perhaps in an attempt to atone for past sins, the Polish Regiments, and the Don Light Horse – a British Cossack Regiment -, played a vital role in securing a peaceful exit from Palestine and Transjordan
As part of Churchill’s restructurering process colonies and Dominions lost their status and became nations, but not just nations, they became Commonwealth nations. Each had a seat in the newly establish Commonwealth Parliament. The number of seats each country had was based on voting population. However, Commonwealth Parliament in Wellington, at first had limited responsibilities; it handled the foreign affairs of the Commonwealth, the exchange of goods, technology, man-power and such, the Commonwealth infrastructure and, finally, it handled the defence of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The various national Parliaments handled, as they of course still do, most other matters. The Commonwealth Parliament had control over the Commonwealth Armed Forces via the United Commonwealth Command in Johannesburg. The Commonwealth nations financed this new political structure with a fixed percentage of their tax revenues.
Commonwealth General-Secretaries
Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society!
- Benjamin Franklin.
List of General-Secretaries of the British Commonwealth of Nations in the Ministry of Space TL.
Konni Zilliacus, Britain : 1947-54.
Leslie Morshead, Australia: 1954-59.
Lal Bahadur Shastri, India: 1959-1966.
Robert Lorne Stanfield, Canada: 1966-73.
John Mary Lynch, Ireland: 1973-80.
Helen Suzman, Federation of South Africa: 1980-87.
Douglas Richard Hurd, Britain: 1987-94.
Rajiv Gandhi, India: 1994-01.
The General-Secretary is the governmental head of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The General-Secretary is appointed by the Commonwealth Parliament in Wellington, New Zealand. The appointment must be confirmed by the recognized Head of State, the British Monarch. The confirmations have thus far been automatic. The General-Secretary’s office in placed in Toronto, Canada.
Commonwealth General-Secretaries
Konni Zilliacus
Konni Zilliacus, was born on 13th of September, 1894. His father, Konni Zilliacus Senior, had been involved in the struggle to obtain the independence of Finnish struggle for independence. Zilliacus was educated in Sweden, Finland and the United States. During WW1 he served as a medical orderly in a military hospital in France.
Zilliacus was a stout supporter of the League of Nations and was not surprisingly devastated by the League's failure to prevent the Italian conquest of Ethiopia and tto stop the Spanish Civil War. Zilliacus resigned from the League Secretariat, when the Germans partitioned and later occupied Czechoslovakia.
Zilliacus was also a member of the 1941 Committee and was among the driving forces behind the organization. Zilliacus held the belief that a much more coordinated effort would be needed, with stricter planning of the economy and greater use of scientific know-how, particularly in the field of war production, if the War was to be won. During that time Zilliacus caught Churchill’s eye.
Originally a Labour-man, Zilliacus was nonetheless head-hunted by Churchill – most likely spurred on by Bevin -, who personally disliked the man, but saw his value, to head the new incarnation of the British Commonwealth as its first General-Secretary.
Zilliacus served as General-Secretaries from 1947 to 1954. He was the first General-Secretary and did much to imbue the post with dignity and a non-nationalistic pro-Commonwealth outlook. Many times Zilliacus clashed openly with both Churchill and Bevin. This was perhaps the reason why he was immensely popular among the Indian, Canadian and African members of the Commonwealth. Whether India actually would be in the Commonwealth without the actions and initiative of Zilliacus, and his good relationship with amongst others Lal Bahadur Shastri, is an open question!
Konni Zilliacus died of leukemia on the 6th of July, 1967, and received a full state-funeral. He is buried in Toronto, Canada
Leslie Morshead
Leslie Morshead was born in Ballarat Victoria, Australia on 18th September, 1897. He worked as a schoolmaster until joining the Australian Army in 1914.
After the Great War Morshead went into business and became the Sydney-manager for the Orient Line. He remained in contact with the army by heading a reserve battalion.
On the outbreak of the Second World War Morshead was given command of a Australian brigade in North Africa. During the War, he rose to command first the 9th Australian Division and later the Australian Imperial Forces. Morshead made himself quite a name, when he and his troops defended Tobruk for eight months. As Rommels’ troops moved into the city, Morshead orchestrated a break-out and managed to escape along with some of his troops. Under threat from a possible Japanese invasion Morshead was recalled to Australia.
After the War, Morshead served at the newly created United Commonwealth Command in Johannesburg, South Africa. During that time he and General William Slim backed South African Premier Jan Smuts in his bid to desegregate the country. When Slim was appointed Field marshal in 1952, Morshead once again returned to Australia, where he became involved in politics. A stout supporter of The Commonwealth, Morshead ran for Parliament and got elected.
In 1954 he was asked to run for General-Secretary of the Commonwealth of Nations. The popular Morshead was elected, mostly due to his personal virtues, but also because of the support he was given by many prominent war-heroes, among them the Commonwealth supreme commander, William Slim!
Moshead negotiated the Commonwealth Defence Alliance in 1955 and helped create the unified command structure of the Commonwealth we know today and later got the Commonwealth nations to sign on to the Commonwealth Custom Union in 1957.
Morshead died in office on the 26th of September, 1959. His funeral was one of the largest in Australia's history. He is buried in his home town!
Lal Bahadur Shastri
Lal Bahadur Shastri was born in 1904. As many of the key political figures at the time he was well-educated.
Shastri was the typical Indian politician at the time. He was engaged in India’s struggle for independence, but saw cooperation with the British as India’s best way of getting that!
After Morsheads premature death, Shastri emerged as the consensus candidate for the post as General-Secretary of the Commonwealth. Shastri had not been in his seat long before he had to attend to the difficult matter of the Muslim revolt in northwestern India, the so-called Pakistani Revolt. While Muslims claimed that it was a spontaneous uprising against the Indian oppression, it was clear that the Soviet Union to a degree had instigated the whole thing! Shastri arranged for the United Commonwealth Command to intervene under the Commonwealth Defense Alliance of 1955. The uprising was crushed in three months and showed the world that the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth were not to be trifled with!
In 1960 Lal Bahadur Shastri enlarged the political structure of the Commonwealth with the Common Monetary System.
Because of this failing health Shastri declined to run a second time, and with good reason it would seem, as he died in early 1966 after suffering a heart attack. Shastri is buried near his place of birth, where a memorial is build in his honour. Its inscription reads, "Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan" (Honor the Soldier, Honor the Farmer).
Robert Lorne Stanfield
Robert Stansfield was born on 11th of April, 1914.
Stanfield was born into a wealthy family and received the best education possible. He attended schools in both Canada and the US.
During his student days, he became a Socialist, but soon reoriented himself and joined the Conservatives, although he never stopped being very conscious of the poor and needy.
In 1948 Stanfield was elected leader of Nova Scotia’s Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and quickly began to revive it. Stanfield served several terms as Premier of Nova Scotia, ruling as a moderate and soon gained the nickname, the Red Tory. Stansfield was one of Canada's most distinguished and respected politicians throughout his entire life.
Stanfield left national politics due to an internal dispute in the PCPC and instead entered the Commonwealth Parliament. Much to his own surprise, he was elected as General-Secretary in 1966. He served a full term from his election to 1973.
Robert Stanfield became renowned as a gentleman-like and very civil man, and was extremely well-liked in all the Commonwealth nations. When he passed away after nearly three years illness on the 16th of December 16, 2003, he was truly mourned by Canadians and Commonwealthers alike. He is buried in Nova Scotia.
John Mary Lynch
John Mary Lynch was born on the 15th of August, 1917 in Cork, Ireland. John was the youngest of seven children.
Lynch was educated in Cork at the North Monastery Christian Brothers School, and applied for a job in the Civil Service. Lynch began working on the Cork Circuit Court Staff as a clerk. This was when he decided on a career in law. He enrolled in University College Cork in 1941 and decided to study for the Bar. He completed his studies at Kings Inns in Dublin and qualified as a barrister. He set returned to Cork and set up his own practice there. In 1946 he married Máirín O Connor.
In 1948 Lynch won a seat in the Irish parliament and spent his first few years as speechwriter and research assistant for Eamon de Valera. When de Valera returned to power in 1951, Lynch was offered the new post of Parliamentary Secretary to the Government. From 1957 until 1966, when he became Prime Minister himself, Lynch served as Minister for Education, Minister for Industry and Commerce and finally Minister for Finance.
When Sean Lemass retired as Prime Minister in 1966, the leadership race was expected to involve several senior politicians, but Lemass, distrustful of the candidates emerging, sought a compromise candidate and brought forth Lynch, who decisively beat the other challengers, thus becoming the third leader of Fianna Fáil and Prime minister on the 10th of November.
Lynch was seen initially as a weak compromise leader, however, he showed his leadership skills and determination. Lynch great ability to compromise and get the best out of nearly any given situation was seen in his handling of the troublesome situation in Ulster or Northern Ireland, if you will. Lynch succeeded in holding the home rule government in place and reducing aid for any radicals. The generally sound economy of the British Isles as well as an influx of other religions served to dilute to old religious hatred in Ulster, not to mention the close cooperation between Dublin and London.
As with his predecessor, Robert Stanfield, Lynch left national politics due to an internal dispute in his own party and instead entered the Commonwealth Parliament. Lynch was elected as General-Secretary in 1973 and served a full term.
After his term ended in 1980, Lynch retired from politics, but still commented on current affairs. Lynch received many honours and awards, among them a place on the Hurling Team of the Century (Lynch received standing ovations from the crowd present when he was called onto the field at Semple Stadium) and the Cork Corporation decided to honour him by naming the newly-built tunnel under the river Lee after him.
John Mary Lynch died on the 23rd of October in 1999 in Dublin. He was honoured with a full State funeral in the North Cathedral of his home town of Cork.
Helen Suzman
Helen Suzman was born in Germiston in 1917. She was educated in a convent and thereafter at the University of Witwatersrand.
In 1944, Suzman started working as a lecturer in Economic History at the University of Witwatersrand, but entered politics after hearing a speech made by Premier Smuts on campus. Suzman joined Smuts’ Union Party and in time became what many fondly refers to as the party’s consciousness. During her time in Parliament she defended the right to freedom of expression for all South Africans and she used every opportunity to speak publicly in its defences and question the government, be it led by her own party or others.
Suzman was one of the few members of Parliament who visited Daniel Francois Malan at Robben Island Maximum Security prison. Suzman in general did her best to inspect and improve the living conditions of prisoners. During the Hungary Crack-Down Suzman fought the ANC-SAIC Alliance under Premier Xuma tooth and nail in the name of political freedom and the right to free expression. Her actions gained her international fame as she spoke out in defense of the Communists and other accused in the Treason Trials.
In 1971 she tackled gender discrimination, especially that of African women. In the same period the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard have awarded her honorary doctorates.
In 1980 Suzman retired from the Federations Parliament as she was elected as General-Secretary of the Commonwealth of Nations as the first female, and South African, General-Secretary.
Suzman refused reelection in 1987 and used her considerable influence to make an old dream of hers come true. Suzman was thus central to the establishment of the Commonwealth Human Right Group. The Group was created to promote democracy and human right in the Commonwealth nations and among their allies and associated members. Suzman herself led the CHRG’s activities from 1987 until 1996, where she retired from public life. Helen Suzman today lives at her ranch in Rhodesia with her husband, Moses Suzman, and family.
Douglas Richard Hurd
Douglas Richard Hurd was born in Marlborough, Wiltshire in 1930.
He attended both Eton and Cambridge. Hurd joined the British diplomacy in 1952 and in various positions affiliated with the Commonwealth of Nations served under both the Eden and MacMillan Governments. Hurd especially made himself a name during the Egyptian Uprising.
He joined the Conservative Party in 1966 and was elected to Parliament in the following General Election. He was handpicked by Prime minister Alec Douglas-Home to head the Ministry of Space after the Lunakhod-scandale.
Douglas Hurd became the most respected Minister of Space and would see Commonwealth astronauts on the Moon under his supervision. When he later resigned, he went into Commonwealth politics and got elected to the Parliament in Wellington.
In 1987 Hurd was elected as General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations as the first British Commonwealth General-Secretary since Konni Zilliacus.
When he stepped down in 1994, Hurd was created Baron Hurd of Westwell. He, however, still remains active, acting as an unofficial Commonwealth spokesman and a successful novelist.
Sanjay Gandhi
Sanjay Gandhi was born in 1946 as the second son of Indira and Feroze Gandhi.
Sanjay attended Indian Air Force University. He was not a man of any unusual academic achievements or other distinctions, but was nonetheless a close supporter of his Mother. Somewhat in contrast to his older brother, Rajiv – who worked as an airline pilot – Sanjay was quite pro-British.
In either 79 or 80, his mother, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, appears to have induced Sanjya, an air force colonel at the time, to enter politics. He stood successfully for election in 1981 and became a senior political adviser to his mother. Evil tongues would say that he was little better at that than being an air force officer
After Indira Gandhi’s death of leukemia in 1987, Sanjay Gandhi succeeded her as leader of the Congress Party, and was sworn in as Prime Minister of India. Sanjay rode on a wave of popularity associated with the name of Gandhi, but had himself few ideas of what to do with his office. He was, as all Indians, keen on keeping India among the most powerful nations in both the Commonwealth and the world and sought to increase Indian investments in modern technology and the armed forces. Sanjay soon brought in his brother Rajiv to help him run India. The elder Gandhi, however, was more of a technocrat, than a true politician, and the two Gandhi’s often made more troubles for themselves than absolutely necessary.
The Gandhi’s among other things committed Indian troops, the so-called Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF), to Ceylon, or Sri Lanka as the natives insist on calling it, in an endeavor to help the government there to eradicate militant separatists. The highly modern Indian force got caught in a nasty guerilla war in which it had no training or equipment, nor the doctrine to handle. Losses were heavy and the Indians soon resolved even the slightest skirmish with the use of the heaviest firepower possible and massive air strikes.
In 1993, the Indian public had grown weary of the Ceylon War, not to mention the apparent mishandling of diplomatic relations with China, Indonesia and Japan, and the Gandhi-brothers were eased from power. Sanjay’s replacement, Vishwanath Pratap Singh, offered him the post of General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations. As India by far is the dominant nation when it comes down to the numbers of votes in the Commonwealth the other nations reluctantly supported Gandhi in the name of unity.
In 1994, Sanjay Ghandi was elected as General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations as the second Indian since Lal Bahadur Shastri in 1959. Rajiv became a senior consultant to the Indian air industry.
No mercy, no power but its own controls it. Panting and snorting like a mad battle steed that has lost its rider, the masterless ocean overruns the globe!
- Herman Melville.
This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror.
- William Shakespeare, King John, Act 5, scene 7.
The Commonwealth of Nations has not always been the strong Confederation it is today! Before the War it was a voluntary and loose association of independent nations with neither power nor influence, nor any real responsibility. Even though the Commonwealth is still voluntary, it is so much more than it was originally intended.
The original Commonwealth was created by Britain and was meant to act like a forum for Britain itself, its Dominions and former colonies. Those times are, as we all know, long gone and the present Commonwealth is a strong political entity of its own. One thing hasn’t changed, though; in the past through times of trouble the countries of the Commonwealth of Nations have stood together, and today they still stand together as brothers on Earth as well as in outer space.
The object of the Commonwealth of Nations today is to advance democracy, economic relations, science, culture, social development within its member nations and to expand the influence of the Commonwealth as such.
With the Commonwealth Pact and the subsequent agreements on free trade, exchange of technology, manufactured goods, raw-materials, the 1955 Commonwealth Defence Alliance, the Custom Union and the monetary ditto in respectively 1957 and 1960, and other similar achievements, the Commonwealth had prospered.
One of the most important parts of the Commonwealth structure is the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, CSIRO, which was founded back in 1926. CSIRO has become the worlds largest and most diverse scientific research institution, and covers a broad range of areas of economic or social importance, including agriculture, minerals and energy, manufacturing, communications, construction, health, computer technology and of course space related research. CSIRO also coordinates the various national scientific programmes and adds additional funding if needed to programmes that has relevancy to the Commonwealth.
Another very influential and important part of the Commonwealth of Nations is the Commonwealth Space Agency. Created in 1980 to serves an umbrella organization for all the Commonwealth’s member nations respective space bureaus and agencies the CSA is now one of the largest and best founded parts of the Commonwealth structure. The CSA is responsible for the Moon bases and the Mars Mission and has a very close working relationship with CSIRO – most of the personnel often work for both agencies or are loaned to each other as a matter of routine. The CSA is purely civilian, but often cooperates with the various militaries in the Commonwealth.
All member nations recognise the British Queen as their own, and thus as the Head of the Commonwealth. The day to day business is run by a General-Secretary, who serve for maximum two consecutive 7-year terms, and the Commonwealth Council. The General-Secretary and the Council is appointed by the Commonwealth Parliament sited in Wellington, New Zealand, which members are elected by their native countries for 5 year terms. A large part of the role of the 731 members of Parliament is to pass legislation or amend existing legislation. The Council is located in Bombay, India. Modern day Commonwealth communication technology keeps the various parts of the Commonwealth governing body in close contact. The General-Secretary’s office is placed in Toronto, Canada.
The Commonwealth is a legacy from Britain's Imperial past, but changed profoundly during the last war-years and in the years immediately after it. The Empire had already given the countries of the British Commonwealth of Nations a legacy of shared language, and a common legal and political system. That sacred legacy was the foundation upon which the new Commonwealth was built.
The one man who can be attributed to creating the modern Commonwealth, as well as many other things, among them the unbroken string of Conservative PM’s and the enormously successful space programme, is, of course, Winston S. Churchill.
In the years running up to the War, the British had granted Canada, Australia and New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland total independence, even though they still were a part of the old pre-Churchillian Commonwealth, the relations were somewhat unequal, as between a benevolent, but arrogant Father and his Children. For instance the British was committed to defend the nations in the Commonwealth, while the participation of the Commonwealth nations in any British wars never was a given. Furthermore, the Commonwealth nations had little say in neither British domestic, foreign or military matters.
Churchill and his government in late 1945, after the horrendous diplomatic catastrophe known as the Yalta Conference, sat about to change all this. Some key colonies were immediately recognized as independent nations within the Commonwealth, now referred to as the Commonwealth of Nations, not just the British Commonwealth as before.
The entire political structure of the Empire was changed, but the true magnitude only became visible late in Churchill’s first post-war term and proclaimed in his famous so-called Empire-speech at the International Congress on Astronautics in 1951; “We must lose the Empire in order to preserve it. But it must be a different Empire, an Empire where we in the brotherhood that is the Commonwealth of Nations shall stand by each other in joy as well as sorrow! We must share all burdens and rewards equally for only as brothers can we survive and thrive in this new world, where an Iron Curtain has descended upon Eastern Europe and a Fortress of Ignorance arisen in the Americas. The eyes of the world now look to us, the Commonwealth of Nations to create a better future!” Those words will forever be imprinted in the minds of every citizen of the Commonwealth. His speech is even today, nearly 50 years later, recited with great affection at Commonwealth Day.
Churchill only just lived to see his Commonwealth of Nations taking off, with the emerging democracy in South Africa, a beginning peace in India and the forming of the Malaysian Confederation between Singapore, Malaya, Sabah (North Borneo), Brunei and Sarawak. Sadly he also oversaw the lowering of the British colours in Transjordan, Palestine, Hong Kong, Nigeria, Cameroun, Sudan, Gambia, Ceylon, Burma, the Gold Coast Togoland and several other places deemed either unfit or simply too impossible to keep in the Commonwealth. Even sadder is the criticism often placed upon Churchill and his cabinet for the decision to withdraw from so much of the Empire in such a fashion – the British “overnight” withdrawal often caused near civil war and genocides in the various locals evacuated. In a few special cases, locals deemed loyal and useful subjects were given time to relocated. In Palestine a purely humanitarian interest made the British evacuate whoever was interested to mostly Rhodesia, but also South Africa and Kenya. Perhaps in an attempt to atone for past sins, the Polish Regiments, and the Don Light Horse – a British Cossack Regiment -, played a vital role in securing a peaceful exit from Palestine and Transjordan
As part of Churchill’s restructurering process colonies and Dominions lost their status and became nations, but not just nations, they became Commonwealth nations. Each had a seat in the newly establish Commonwealth Parliament. The number of seats each country had was based on voting population. However, Commonwealth Parliament in Wellington, at first had limited responsibilities; it handled the foreign affairs of the Commonwealth, the exchange of goods, technology, man-power and such, the Commonwealth infrastructure and, finally, it handled the defence of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The various national Parliaments handled, as they of course still do, most other matters. The Commonwealth Parliament had control over the Commonwealth Armed Forces via the United Commonwealth Command in Johannesburg. The Commonwealth nations financed this new political structure with a fixed percentage of their tax revenues.
Commonwealth General-Secretaries
Educate your children to self-control, to the habit of holding passion and prejudice and evil tendencies subject to an upright and reasoning will, and you have done much to abolish misery from their future and crimes from society!
- Benjamin Franklin.
List of General-Secretaries of the British Commonwealth of Nations in the Ministry of Space TL.
Konni Zilliacus, Britain : 1947-54.
Leslie Morshead, Australia: 1954-59.
Lal Bahadur Shastri, India: 1959-1966.
Robert Lorne Stanfield, Canada: 1966-73.
John Mary Lynch, Ireland: 1973-80.
Helen Suzman, Federation of South Africa: 1980-87.
Douglas Richard Hurd, Britain: 1987-94.
Rajiv Gandhi, India: 1994-01.
The General-Secretary is the governmental head of the British Commonwealth of Nations. The General-Secretary is appointed by the Commonwealth Parliament in Wellington, New Zealand. The appointment must be confirmed by the recognized Head of State, the British Monarch. The confirmations have thus far been automatic. The General-Secretary’s office in placed in Toronto, Canada.
Commonwealth General-Secretaries
Konni Zilliacus
Konni Zilliacus, was born on 13th of September, 1894. His father, Konni Zilliacus Senior, had been involved in the struggle to obtain the independence of Finnish struggle for independence. Zilliacus was educated in Sweden, Finland and the United States. During WW1 he served as a medical orderly in a military hospital in France.
Zilliacus was a stout supporter of the League of Nations and was not surprisingly devastated by the League's failure to prevent the Italian conquest of Ethiopia and tto stop the Spanish Civil War. Zilliacus resigned from the League Secretariat, when the Germans partitioned and later occupied Czechoslovakia.
Zilliacus was also a member of the 1941 Committee and was among the driving forces behind the organization. Zilliacus held the belief that a much more coordinated effort would be needed, with stricter planning of the economy and greater use of scientific know-how, particularly in the field of war production, if the War was to be won. During that time Zilliacus caught Churchill’s eye.
Originally a Labour-man, Zilliacus was nonetheless head-hunted by Churchill – most likely spurred on by Bevin -, who personally disliked the man, but saw his value, to head the new incarnation of the British Commonwealth as its first General-Secretary.
Zilliacus served as General-Secretaries from 1947 to 1954. He was the first General-Secretary and did much to imbue the post with dignity and a non-nationalistic pro-Commonwealth outlook. Many times Zilliacus clashed openly with both Churchill and Bevin. This was perhaps the reason why he was immensely popular among the Indian, Canadian and African members of the Commonwealth. Whether India actually would be in the Commonwealth without the actions and initiative of Zilliacus, and his good relationship with amongst others Lal Bahadur Shastri, is an open question!
Konni Zilliacus died of leukemia on the 6th of July, 1967, and received a full state-funeral. He is buried in Toronto, Canada
Leslie Morshead
Leslie Morshead was born in Ballarat Victoria, Australia on 18th September, 1897. He worked as a schoolmaster until joining the Australian Army in 1914.
After the Great War Morshead went into business and became the Sydney-manager for the Orient Line. He remained in contact with the army by heading a reserve battalion.
On the outbreak of the Second World War Morshead was given command of a Australian brigade in North Africa. During the War, he rose to command first the 9th Australian Division and later the Australian Imperial Forces. Morshead made himself quite a name, when he and his troops defended Tobruk for eight months. As Rommels’ troops moved into the city, Morshead orchestrated a break-out and managed to escape along with some of his troops. Under threat from a possible Japanese invasion Morshead was recalled to Australia.
After the War, Morshead served at the newly created United Commonwealth Command in Johannesburg, South Africa. During that time he and General William Slim backed South African Premier Jan Smuts in his bid to desegregate the country. When Slim was appointed Field marshal in 1952, Morshead once again returned to Australia, where he became involved in politics. A stout supporter of The Commonwealth, Morshead ran for Parliament and got elected.
In 1954 he was asked to run for General-Secretary of the Commonwealth of Nations. The popular Morshead was elected, mostly due to his personal virtues, but also because of the support he was given by many prominent war-heroes, among them the Commonwealth supreme commander, William Slim!
Moshead negotiated the Commonwealth Defence Alliance in 1955 and helped create the unified command structure of the Commonwealth we know today and later got the Commonwealth nations to sign on to the Commonwealth Custom Union in 1957.
Morshead died in office on the 26th of September, 1959. His funeral was one of the largest in Australia's history. He is buried in his home town!
Lal Bahadur Shastri
Lal Bahadur Shastri was born in 1904. As many of the key political figures at the time he was well-educated.
Shastri was the typical Indian politician at the time. He was engaged in India’s struggle for independence, but saw cooperation with the British as India’s best way of getting that!
After Morsheads premature death, Shastri emerged as the consensus candidate for the post as General-Secretary of the Commonwealth. Shastri had not been in his seat long before he had to attend to the difficult matter of the Muslim revolt in northwestern India, the so-called Pakistani Revolt. While Muslims claimed that it was a spontaneous uprising against the Indian oppression, it was clear that the Soviet Union to a degree had instigated the whole thing! Shastri arranged for the United Commonwealth Command to intervene under the Commonwealth Defense Alliance of 1955. The uprising was crushed in three months and showed the world that the Armed Forces of the Commonwealth were not to be trifled with!
In 1960 Lal Bahadur Shastri enlarged the political structure of the Commonwealth with the Common Monetary System.
Because of this failing health Shastri declined to run a second time, and with good reason it would seem, as he died in early 1966 after suffering a heart attack. Shastri is buried near his place of birth, where a memorial is build in his honour. Its inscription reads, "Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan" (Honor the Soldier, Honor the Farmer).
Robert Lorne Stanfield
Robert Stansfield was born on 11th of April, 1914.
Stanfield was born into a wealthy family and received the best education possible. He attended schools in both Canada and the US.
During his student days, he became a Socialist, but soon reoriented himself and joined the Conservatives, although he never stopped being very conscious of the poor and needy.
In 1948 Stanfield was elected leader of Nova Scotia’s Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and quickly began to revive it. Stanfield served several terms as Premier of Nova Scotia, ruling as a moderate and soon gained the nickname, the Red Tory. Stansfield was one of Canada's most distinguished and respected politicians throughout his entire life.
Stanfield left national politics due to an internal dispute in the PCPC and instead entered the Commonwealth Parliament. Much to his own surprise, he was elected as General-Secretary in 1966. He served a full term from his election to 1973.
Robert Stanfield became renowned as a gentleman-like and very civil man, and was extremely well-liked in all the Commonwealth nations. When he passed away after nearly three years illness on the 16th of December 16, 2003, he was truly mourned by Canadians and Commonwealthers alike. He is buried in Nova Scotia.
John Mary Lynch
John Mary Lynch was born on the 15th of August, 1917 in Cork, Ireland. John was the youngest of seven children.
Lynch was educated in Cork at the North Monastery Christian Brothers School, and applied for a job in the Civil Service. Lynch began working on the Cork Circuit Court Staff as a clerk. This was when he decided on a career in law. He enrolled in University College Cork in 1941 and decided to study for the Bar. He completed his studies at Kings Inns in Dublin and qualified as a barrister. He set returned to Cork and set up his own practice there. In 1946 he married Máirín O Connor.
In 1948 Lynch won a seat in the Irish parliament and spent his first few years as speechwriter and research assistant for Eamon de Valera. When de Valera returned to power in 1951, Lynch was offered the new post of Parliamentary Secretary to the Government. From 1957 until 1966, when he became Prime Minister himself, Lynch served as Minister for Education, Minister for Industry and Commerce and finally Minister for Finance.
When Sean Lemass retired as Prime Minister in 1966, the leadership race was expected to involve several senior politicians, but Lemass, distrustful of the candidates emerging, sought a compromise candidate and brought forth Lynch, who decisively beat the other challengers, thus becoming the third leader of Fianna Fáil and Prime minister on the 10th of November.
Lynch was seen initially as a weak compromise leader, however, he showed his leadership skills and determination. Lynch great ability to compromise and get the best out of nearly any given situation was seen in his handling of the troublesome situation in Ulster or Northern Ireland, if you will. Lynch succeeded in holding the home rule government in place and reducing aid for any radicals. The generally sound economy of the British Isles as well as an influx of other religions served to dilute to old religious hatred in Ulster, not to mention the close cooperation between Dublin and London.
As with his predecessor, Robert Stanfield, Lynch left national politics due to an internal dispute in his own party and instead entered the Commonwealth Parliament. Lynch was elected as General-Secretary in 1973 and served a full term.
After his term ended in 1980, Lynch retired from politics, but still commented on current affairs. Lynch received many honours and awards, among them a place on the Hurling Team of the Century (Lynch received standing ovations from the crowd present when he was called onto the field at Semple Stadium) and the Cork Corporation decided to honour him by naming the newly-built tunnel under the river Lee after him.
John Mary Lynch died on the 23rd of October in 1999 in Dublin. He was honoured with a full State funeral in the North Cathedral of his home town of Cork.
Helen Suzman
Helen Suzman was born in Germiston in 1917. She was educated in a convent and thereafter at the University of Witwatersrand.
In 1944, Suzman started working as a lecturer in Economic History at the University of Witwatersrand, but entered politics after hearing a speech made by Premier Smuts on campus. Suzman joined Smuts’ Union Party and in time became what many fondly refers to as the party’s consciousness. During her time in Parliament she defended the right to freedom of expression for all South Africans and she used every opportunity to speak publicly in its defences and question the government, be it led by her own party or others.
Suzman was one of the few members of Parliament who visited Daniel Francois Malan at Robben Island Maximum Security prison. Suzman in general did her best to inspect and improve the living conditions of prisoners. During the Hungary Crack-Down Suzman fought the ANC-SAIC Alliance under Premier Xuma tooth and nail in the name of political freedom and the right to free expression. Her actions gained her international fame as she spoke out in defense of the Communists and other accused in the Treason Trials.
In 1971 she tackled gender discrimination, especially that of African women. In the same period the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard have awarded her honorary doctorates.
In 1980 Suzman retired from the Federations Parliament as she was elected as General-Secretary of the Commonwealth of Nations as the first female, and South African, General-Secretary.
Suzman refused reelection in 1987 and used her considerable influence to make an old dream of hers come true. Suzman was thus central to the establishment of the Commonwealth Human Right Group. The Group was created to promote democracy and human right in the Commonwealth nations and among their allies and associated members. Suzman herself led the CHRG’s activities from 1987 until 1996, where she retired from public life. Helen Suzman today lives at her ranch in Rhodesia with her husband, Moses Suzman, and family.
Douglas Richard Hurd
Douglas Richard Hurd was born in Marlborough, Wiltshire in 1930.
He attended both Eton and Cambridge. Hurd joined the British diplomacy in 1952 and in various positions affiliated with the Commonwealth of Nations served under both the Eden and MacMillan Governments. Hurd especially made himself a name during the Egyptian Uprising.
He joined the Conservative Party in 1966 and was elected to Parliament in the following General Election. He was handpicked by Prime minister Alec Douglas-Home to head the Ministry of Space after the Lunakhod-scandale.
Douglas Hurd became the most respected Minister of Space and would see Commonwealth astronauts on the Moon under his supervision. When he later resigned, he went into Commonwealth politics and got elected to the Parliament in Wellington.
In 1987 Hurd was elected as General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations as the first British Commonwealth General-Secretary since Konni Zilliacus.
When he stepped down in 1994, Hurd was created Baron Hurd of Westwell. He, however, still remains active, acting as an unofficial Commonwealth spokesman and a successful novelist.
Sanjay Gandhi
Sanjay Gandhi was born in 1946 as the second son of Indira and Feroze Gandhi.
Sanjay attended Indian Air Force University. He was not a man of any unusual academic achievements or other distinctions, but was nonetheless a close supporter of his Mother. Somewhat in contrast to his older brother, Rajiv – who worked as an airline pilot – Sanjay was quite pro-British.
In either 79 or 80, his mother, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, appears to have induced Sanjya, an air force colonel at the time, to enter politics. He stood successfully for election in 1981 and became a senior political adviser to his mother. Evil tongues would say that he was little better at that than being an air force officer
After Indira Gandhi’s death of leukemia in 1987, Sanjay Gandhi succeeded her as leader of the Congress Party, and was sworn in as Prime Minister of India. Sanjay rode on a wave of popularity associated with the name of Gandhi, but had himself few ideas of what to do with his office. He was, as all Indians, keen on keeping India among the most powerful nations in both the Commonwealth and the world and sought to increase Indian investments in modern technology and the armed forces. Sanjay soon brought in his brother Rajiv to help him run India. The elder Gandhi, however, was more of a technocrat, than a true politician, and the two Gandhi’s often made more troubles for themselves than absolutely necessary.
The Gandhi’s among other things committed Indian troops, the so-called Indian Peace Keeping Force (IPKF), to Ceylon, or Sri Lanka as the natives insist on calling it, in an endeavor to help the government there to eradicate militant separatists. The highly modern Indian force got caught in a nasty guerilla war in which it had no training or equipment, nor the doctrine to handle. Losses were heavy and the Indians soon resolved even the slightest skirmish with the use of the heaviest firepower possible and massive air strikes.
In 1993, the Indian public had grown weary of the Ceylon War, not to mention the apparent mishandling of diplomatic relations with China, Indonesia and Japan, and the Gandhi-brothers were eased from power. Sanjay’s replacement, Vishwanath Pratap Singh, offered him the post of General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations. As India by far is the dominant nation when it comes down to the numbers of votes in the Commonwealth the other nations reluctantly supported Gandhi in the name of unity.
In 1994, Sanjay Ghandi was elected as General-Secretary of the British Commonwealth of Nations as the second Indian since Lal Bahadur Shastri in 1959. Rajiv became a senior consultant to the Indian air industry.
Was the Cork Tunnel real or made up?
if it was made up are you thinking the Irish economy started its rise earlier- say the 70's rather then the 90's. British investment and all that.
when exactly was the Moon landing in TTL i gather it was later then OTL, was it just a couple of years or mid/late 70's?
if it was made up are you thinking the Irish economy started its rise earlier- say the 70's rather then the 90's. British investment and all that.
when exactly was the Moon landing in TTL i gather it was later then OTL, was it just a couple of years or mid/late 70's?
Two things...
Firstly, sterling work, Mr. Bluenote! I have MoS myself, I've wondered how it could have been feasible. This looks pretty reasonable. I assume as part of the research for this you looked at various books: have you read Backroom Boys, by Francis Spufford? That has a discussion of the real British space programme -what there was of it...
Secondly, I just wanted to let you know that someone is reading - you're not posting to the empty ether.
Keep it up!
Firstly, sterling work, Mr. Bluenote! I have MoS myself, I've wondered how it could have been feasible. This looks pretty reasonable. I assume as part of the research for this you looked at various books: have you read Backroom Boys, by Francis Spufford? That has a discussion of the real British space programme -what there was of it...
Secondly, I just wanted to let you know that someone is reading - you're not posting to the empty ether.
Keep it up!
Hey Guys!
Sorry for another long dry spell, but I've recently had exams, which are now happily and successfully over (thank God for small favours)!
If all goes well, a new chapter shopuld be up either later today or in the morning!
Btw if it has gone unnotice, the MoS is up and running in the Timeline & Scenarios section!
Yes, I would suppose that Ireland would be on level with the Commonwealth from around the 60's and onwards, which is one of the reasons there is little trouble in the MoS-ATL.
Oh, I can't remember if I actually gave a year for the Moon Landing, but it was under Heath's premiership, so about 1976-80. Probably around '76-77.
I hope that does make some kind of sense?
Thanks for your commenst!
My regards!
- Bluenote.
Sorry for another long dry spell, but I've recently had exams, which are now happily and successfully over (thank God for small favours)!
If all goes well, a new chapter shopuld be up either later today or in the morning!
Btw if it has gone unnotice, the MoS is up and running in the Timeline & Scenarios section!
The Cork Tunnel is made up! I got inspired by our talk about Northern Ireland in this ATL and found it to be a neat thing to add!
Yes, I would suppose that Ireland would be on level with the Commonwealth from around the 60's and onwards, which is one of the reasons there is little trouble in the MoS-ATL.
Oh, I can't remember if I actually gave a year for the Moon Landing, but it was under Heath's premiership, so about 1976-80. Probably around '76-77.
No, I don't really think so. Both the Brits along wiht the other Commonwealth nations and the French, not to mention the Soviets are very keen and good at rooting out that sort of thing - fx. the Shah stays in power in Persia, the Pakistani Revolt is crushed quite severely and Afghanistan is not exactly the "success" it was in OTL for islamic fundamentalists. Nor does Israel exists to generate animosity (for those who beleive in that theory). I generally believe that pan-arabism will be much more dominant in this ATL and serve as the focal point for anti-western emotions in that region.
I hope that does make some kind of sense?
Thanks for your commenst!
My regards!
- Bluenote.
Mr.Bluenote,your Briiiiiits iiiiin Spaaaaace! is really fantastic.Im Italian,and would want know more about Italy in your timeline.As you know Italians,above all Italians of the south but also those of the others regions, are very Anglophiles.So is Italy close to Commonwhealth (or IN the Commonwhealth)? Thanks. https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=65015
No, I can't say I've read mr. Spufford's book. I must admit that besides the internet, I've sadly not been able to locate much information about the British space programme (or lack thereoff), but that might be down to a combination of pure laziness and the fact that I'm sitting in Denmark.
Thank you very much, alt_historian! It's always nice to known, people are reading this!
Thanks man! I'm glad you like it!
Italy? Yes, sure! I'll see if I can include something about Italy in the parts I'm posting in the Timeliens section!
Actually, I didn't known the talians were particulary fond of all things British?
Good thread btw! I'll see if I have anything sensible to say about the subject!
Regards and all!
- Mr. B.
So...
What happened to Labour? How come the Liberals become the main opposition party again?
I noticed back near the start of this that Churchill seemed to stay on as PM after WW2, though there was some mention of Attlee too... Did Labour even have a postwar government?
What happened to Labour? How come the Liberals become the main opposition party again?
I noticed back near the start of this that Churchill seemed to stay on as PM after WW2, though there was some mention of Attlee too... Did Labour even have a postwar government?
Attlee led a labour government from 1952- 1956 ITTL i think, i think he doesnt give the support to the space program that people want and Labour never recover from said mistake, also socialism is given a bad name becuase of the Soviet Union's actions postwar.
glad to see this is back.
couple of random thoughts not neccessarily that i think need to be mentioned in the TL but what i see happening in the 'background'
wouldnt blowing up an Egyptian city over a canal give off a bad impression to the rest of the world and the British public.
given OTL South Korea's economic miracle, i'd expect a unifed western orientated Korea to be even better off by the beginning of the 21st century
couple of random thoughts not neccessarily that i think need to be mentioned in the TL but what i see happening in the 'background'
wouldnt blowing up an Egyptian city over a canal give off a bad impression to the rest of the world and the British public.
given OTL South Korea's economic miracle, i'd expect a unifed western orientated Korea to be even better off by the beginning of the 21st century
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Hmm...
OK, I can see something like that being possible with all the butterflies. Interesting though - the Conservatives becoming the high-taxing, high-spending, nationalisation party, and the Liberals being the opposite. Thatcher would be turning in her grave, if she were dead.
I have to wonder, though, if whatever's left of Labour merge with the Liberals as a united opposition party, forming the - Social Liberals, maybe?
OK, I can see something like that being possible with all the butterflies. Interesting though - the Conservatives becoming the high-taxing, high-spending, nationalisation party, and the Liberals being the opposite. Thatcher would be turning in her grave, if she were dead.
I have to wonder, though, if whatever's left of Labour merge with the Liberals as a united opposition party, forming the - Social Liberals, maybe?
OK, I can see something like that being possible with all the butterflies. Interesting though - the Conservatives becoming the high-taxing, high-spending, nationalisation party, and the Liberals being the opposite. Thatcher would be turning in her grave, if she were dead.
I have to wonder, though, if whatever's left of Labour merge with the Liberals as a united opposition party, forming the - Social Liberals, maybe?
i guess the Conservatives are high spending although TTL still has Thatcher who does her stuff
, i'm not sure about nationalising though, better reread the TL.best move this discussion to the Brits in space discussion thread on the Post 1900 WI's forum, they dont want comments on the Timelines/Scenarios forum.
Huh?
What the hell happened to my post? I put up a thing asking what happened to the Labour Party, someone replied to me, and now both are gone!
What the hell happened to my post? I put up a thing asking what happened to the Labour Party, someone replied to me, and now both are gone!
Glen
Moderator
What the hell happened to my post? I put up a thing asking what happened to the Labour Party, someone replied to me, and now both are gone!
Moved here, of course. I PMed to explain.
So the Commonwealth is sort of like the EU except more so and quicker?