Minimum Caliphate, Maximum Islam

Let's say Al Walid falls off a horse and breaks his neck early on, while the wars against the admittedly exausted Romans and Persians are plagued with similar luck (or go even further and say that Muhammed does not manage to unify Arabia beyond the Hejaz). With the military expansion of Islamic rule off the table, how far does said religion spread?

(for that matter, how many military setbacks would keep them out of Mesopotamia and the Levant all things considered)

I suspect a lot farther than many would think. The Arabs had long been involved in the trade networks of the Indian Ocean, and OTL _did_ establish a strong following via missionary traders from Central Asia to the Indies. At the very least they would be akin to Jews with scattered settlements and strong ties to traditon (only perhaps with a more centralized network of theology), at most... well, look at Indonesia....

HTG
 

Nikephoros

Banned
I suspect a lot farther than many would think. The Arabs had long been involved in the trade networks of the Indian Ocean, and OTL _did_ establish a strong following via missionary traders from Central Asia to the Indies. At the very least they would be akin to Jews with scattered settlements and strong ties to traditon (only perhaps with a more centralized network of theology), at most... well, look at Indonesia....
HTG

I agree with you. Indonesia was not conquered by Arabic rulers, but they still became heavily Islamicized
 
I agree with you. Indonesia was not conquered by Arabic rulers, but they still became heavily Islamisized (typo?)

I think it's spelled "Islamicized."

Also, although there were many converts, didn't Indonesia not become Muslim until the Muslims conquered India and Bengal?

I remember reading that there were Muslim communities in southwest India, so maybe without the Ghaznavid, Ghurid, Delhi, and Mughal invasions of India, there would be more Muslims in the south rather than Muslim states in the north.
 
I think it's spelled "Islamicized."

1) Also, although there were many converts, didn't Indonesia not become Muslim until the Muslims conquered India and Bengal?

2) I remember reading that there were Muslim communities in southwest India, so maybe without the Ghaznavid, Ghurid, Delhi, and Mughal invasions of India, there would be more Muslims in the south rather than Muslim states in the north.

1) I don't think that would have much effect though. There were Arabs, Persians, Gujaratis, Bengalis, Keralans, Tamils, and Chinese traveled to Indonesia in the past, and none of those groups that didn't have Muslims in it.

2) Perhaps. But in this case I suppose Muslim communities be most likely based on the coastals. Not saying that they couldn't spread into inner area though....

Btw, isn't "Islamicized" an Islamic equivalent of "Westernized" ? Shouldn't it be "Islamized" ?
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Btw, isn't "Islamicized" an Islamic equivalent of "Westernized" ? Shouldn't it be "Islamized" ?
No, because "Islam" is a noun and "Western" is an adjective (derived from "West"). "Islamic" is the analogous adjective (derived from Islam) and so "Islamicized" has the meaning of "made Islamic" (as opposed to "made Islam," which doesn't work). You can however also say "Islamified" using yet another derivational morpheme that we've stolen from Latin. English is cool that way.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
No, because "Islam" is a noun and "Western" is an adjective (derived from "West"). "Islamic" is the analogous adjective (derived from Islam) and so "Islamicized" has the meaning of "made Islamic" (as opposed to "made Islam," which doesn't work). You can however also say "Islamified" using yet another derivational morpheme that we've stolen from Latin. English is cool that way.

Arrrrgghhh:mad: Someday I'm going to conquer the world and when that day come I'm going to force you all to learn Danish gramatic as punishment.



:p
 
No, because "Islam" is a noun and "Western" is an adjective (derived from "West"). "Islamic" is the analogous adjective (derived from Islam) and so "Islamicized" has the meaning of "made Islamic" (as opposed to "made Islam," which doesn't work). You can however also say "Islamified" using yet another derivational morpheme that we've stolen from Latin. English is cool that way.

Right all, me is start remember that now and then.... :p:D
 
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