Ming Dynasty and Steam Power

Hello, I am doing a University term paper on which, if any, pre-modern civilisations could have exploited steam power, and what would have been the result? Thanks for all replies in advance.

What I've come up with so far:

Admiral Zheng He (Jung Huh) has steam power in his arsenal. Instead of isolation and the world's greatest navy capitulating on itself, He travels Europe and meets Vasco da Gama. Gama is terrified of the massive Chinese vessels and no great European exploration age occurs. Instead, China dominates all the seas.

China discovers the New World. Using steam power they colonise it rapidly, killing off the Indians far quicker than Christopher Columbus did. China becomes a global empire until its inevitable decline when the rest of Europe and the world catches up. China becomes too big to defend and falls into decline, after becoming extremely wealthy.

What do you all think? I'm sure steam power can be applied to railways too, so China conquers all of Asia too using effective use of rail as transportation and has pretty much a global Empire bar Europe and the West.
 
China can possibly develop some form steam power, likely something along the lines of open turbines rather than pistons, though the latter is possible if needed to pump water from mines (as was the case in OTL Britain). Japan is also a possibility, though the stigma against merchants may limit this possibility.

Be warned however that a full-blown Euro-style Industrial Revolution is unlikely due to economic, cultural and demographic differences. There won't be major factories IMO as the population surplus will keep hand labor costs more than competitively small. Also, no real likelihood of major private exploitation but rather expect steam engines to remain in the hands of the Government bureaucracy. Gov't virtual monopolies in information (printing press) will keep designs from scattering to anyone interested like happened in Europe.

Steam China will progress slowly (as things did OTL with about every other major tech innovation they had) and methodically at the pace of government with a few specific "whiz-bang" applications like simple steam carts, clocks, rising thrones, and other toys for the Emperor being the most likely early uses. Trains may take much longer to develop than OTL Europe since alternate transportation (hundreds of peasants) will eliminate much of the demand for such. It might appear in some form (eventually) from the army when you need to move a lot of people and supplies fast across a ginormous empire, but even then technological conservativeness typically ruled military minds before the 20th century (witness how long it took to adopt automatic weapons). Asian conquests will by necessity reach an end at some point due to simply overrunning supply chains and any monetary/military reason to do so (fighting a land war in Asia is even stupider than challenging a Scicillian when death is on the line, after all). Also, why? (see "Why?" reasons for America below)


Zheng He (or more likely his ATL analog; the butterfly effect could mean he's never born or never "eunuched" into power or that the Yongle Emperor never rises to power) with steam ships (again, not a guarantee, see above for pace-of-tech changes) could theoretically travel further and heavier, but be warned against the popular myths about China's "lost" attempt at an age of discovery. (BTW Menizez's book on Zheng finding America is BS) Chinese Treasure Fleets were not out to "discover" or colonize or even make a profit, but were there to Demonstrate the Universal Power of the Celestial Throne and the inevitability and superiority of Confucian order and were (probably wisely) scrapped as wasteful practices that returned little. Maybe ATL the "Steam Ships" reach Europe and Euro clockwork toys and lens/glasswork to justify further trade travels.

Going to *America: Why? Why ride off to the edge of the world when the Middle Kingdom has everything and all else is barbarism and chaos? There's no mercantilism to drive the quest for gold. There's no rush to "save souls" since all is eternal and cyclical for ever. There's no huge reason to colonize or to grow specialty crops that almost all grow within a short boat ride away in Indochina.

If they, say, eventually travel along the Pacific Rim to find *America (which again, when things get to be more cold and inhospitable and barbaric with every Li you travel, why? Let's assume one ship blown off course and carried by the currents ala Years of Rice & Salt), there's no rush to colonize. Again, all barbarians and emptiness from all they can see. Voyages might bring back "auspicious" pieces of Giant Redwood at best unless they for some reason eventually go far enough to reach Central America or Peru and encounter something resembling "actual (Chinese) civilization". Perhaps those bloodthirsty temple builders being willing to trade valuable jade for trinkets will be worth another voyage, perhaps even (small, very limited) trade settlements along the way to support future (government-sponsored) voyages. Small populations, no real major expansions. No major OTL-style genocides because why bother? They're not there to settle. The few who flee the Chinese life maybe pass along ideas and culture to various native nations, maybe form Creole cultures. But no plantations, mass colonizations, or continent-spanning Chinese nations.
 
What are they burning to produce all this steam power? Though Chinas coal reserves are vast, they are also deep, often of poor quality (for early use), and very far from the coast where the steam revolution is likely to be happening.

Much like founder crops, you need a basic technological package before you exploit the more complex and difficult resources, and the conditions for founder industry are worse in China than they are in the European locales that started using steam power.
 
A possibility, since the Chinese have a high value for efficiency. However, historically speaking, the Chinese cared very little about the outside world. As far as they were concerned, they had the best part of Earth and the foreign devils were welcomed to the rest of it. That made trading with China difficult since Europe didn't have anything China really wanted.
 
In the early Ming era China did have a active overseas trade, a large merchant & military fleet, and the economy to sustain that for several decades. Large trading fleets are documented reaching as far as Africa s east coast circa 1400-1420 & regular merchant ship stops in Indian & SE Asian ports. What happened to all that after 1420 I am not expert enough to comment on, but for several decades China had the trading or merchant economy extending overseas to make use of steam power in its merchant fleet, if such were available & economical.
 
During the Ming Dynasty China's economy was far more capitalist than in Europe, and large companies with large trading networks had already emerged. I can see the companies in coal-rich Shanxi using steam engines to produce manufactured goods like textiles, and then steel quickly and cheaply. Then they'd build privately owned railways to spread their goods around the empire at little cost. It will take decades before the Imperial bureaucracy clues in to the usefulness of these inventions for military purposes.
 
During the Ming Dynasty China's economy was far more capitalist than in Europe, and large companies with large trading networks had already emerged. I can see the companies in coal-rich Shanxi using steam engines to produce manufactured goods like textiles, and then steel quickly and cheaply. Then they'd build privately owned railways to spread their goods around the empire at little cost. It will take decades before the Imperial bureaucracy clues in to the usefulness of these inventions for military purposes.

The ancient Greeks had the technology to create a steam engine, and a railroad, but the powers that be didn't see a need for one. What makes some local magistrate decide to take what probably starts out as one of his "toys", and turn into a machine to do work?
 
The ancient Greeks had the technology to create a steam engine, and a railroad, but the powers that be didn't see a need for one. What makes some local magistrate decide to take what probably starts out as one of his "toys", and turn into a machine to do work?

The ancient Greeks did not have the technology to create a steam engine capable of useful work, as Flubber will probably explain more bluntly than I want to think about.
 
The ancient Greeks had the technology to create a steam engine, and a railroad, but the powers that be didn't see a need for one. What makes some local magistrate decide to take what probably starts out as one of his "toys", and turn into a machine to do work?

1) Ming Dynasty China was capitalist and possessed vast trading networks. One of China's wealthiest regions at the time was Shanxi, in no small part due to its literally dirt cheap coal reserves.

2) Some nerd somewhere in Shanxi who failed the imperial examinations and who is bored designs a steam engine to irrigate the region's dry climate but fertile soil, while charging peasants for his water. He becomes rich overnight.

3) Eventually one of the region's powerful trading companies (no, seriously, those guys controlled China's salt trade and dominated the land Silk Road) steals the concept and uses the steam engine to power a new textile mill. Within a few years their trade booms, and using their trade networks, drastically cutting the price of textiles across China and East Asia.

4) The first railways are built, mainly to transport coal from mine shafts to the surface. It's then decided to extend the railways to one of Shanxi's major cities. Within a few years the railway emerges as a mode of transportation within the province.

5) At this time the magistrates in Shanxi, let alone the Emperor in the Imperial Palace, view these events as cute, but inconsequential. But one day, a eunuch suggests to the Emperor how easy his job would be if troops can be moved across China quickly. In reality said eunuch is deeply invested in one of Shanxi's industrial groups and stands to gain massively from a railway boom. Nonetheless, the Emperor makes an edict to build a vast system of railways.
 
1) Ming Dynasty China was capitalist and possessed vast trading networks. One of China's wealthiest regions at the time was Shanxi, in no small part due to its literally dirt cheap coal reserves.

2) Some nerd somewhere in Shanxi who failed the imperial examinations and who is bored designs a steam engine to irrigate the region's dry climate but fertile soil, while charging peasants for his water. He becomes rich overnight.

Whoa, hold on. How does he manage to design a working steam engine like that?

Assuming the know-how about the stuff you need to know is out there (as in, China is at a comparable level) - we're talking decades of development:

http://www.egr.msu.edu/~lira/supp/steam/

And where is he getting the water (the water he's charging the peasants for) from?
 
Whoa, hold on. How does he manage to design a working steam engine like that?

Assuming the know-how about the stuff you need to know is out there (as in, China is at a comparable level) - we're talking decades of development:

http://www.egr.msu.edu/~lira/supp/steam/
I'm assuming he is a "great man" on the lines of Thomas Edison. His first preference, like any Chinese gentleman, was to become an imperial scholar, but he found Confucian classics too boring. Hence, he fails the examination. Depressed, he spends his days experimenting Buddha-knows-what designs. Up until the late 18th century, the richest parts of China (Shanxi and the Yangtze Delta) had living standards and industry comparable to those of England and the Netherlands. In any case, thanks to this "great man", even a crude steam engine of 2% efficiency, given Shanxi's plentiful coal reserves, is an improvement on manual work.

And where is he getting the water (the water he's charging the peasants for) from?
The peasants who had struggled tilling on the loess plateau of Shanxi used to pay exorbitant amounts to water carriers. This guy installed a steam engine near a river and built a pipeline up the hill, instantly reducing the peasants' costs and increasing their productivity. At this point, patents only existed in some Italian city states. After this guy expands his irrigation business, his design is stolen by a trading company and expanded for other uses. As a result our hero dies relatively unknown.
 
I'm assuming he is a "great man" on the lines of Thomas Edison. His first preference, like any Chinese gentleman, was to become an imperial scholar, but he found Confucian classics too boring. Hence, he fails the examination. Depressed, he spends his days experimenting Buddha-knows-what designs. Up until the late 18th century, the richest parts of China (Shanxi and the Yangtze Delta) had living standards and industry comparable to those of England and the Netherlands. In any case, thanks to this "great man", even a crude steam engine of 2% efficiency, given Shanxi's plentiful coal reserves, is an improvement on manual work.

Even a "great man" on the lines of Thomas Edison is still going to go through several failed attempts before finding something that works well enough to be worth the trouble.

I'm not saying he can't come up with something, but it's going to be a drawn out experiment, not a lucky doodle.

Especially given that early designs don't work very well. It's not just fuel to energy inefficiency, it's actually producing useful amounts of power - early steam engines produced puny amounts of horsepower.

The peasants who had struggled tilling on the loess plateau of Shanxi used to pay exorbitant amounts to water carriers. This guy installed a steam engine near a river and built a pipeline up the hill, instantly reducing the peasants' costs and increasing their productivity. At this point, patents only existed in some Italian city states. After this guy expands his irrigation business, his design is stolen by a trading company and expanded for other uses. As a result our hero dies relatively unknown.
Gotcha. What I know of Shanxi's geography is minimal, so was wondering how that worked.
 
I'm not saying he can't come up with something, but it's going to be a drawn out experiment, not a lucky doodle.

Speaking as someone's who's visited Shanxi before, trust me, you will have plenty of time on your hands.
 
The only feasible way I imagine is for the inventor to come from a decently affluent family, pass the imperial examination, gain respect as a scholar and eventually use his spare time to pursue the idea. Hopefully the inventor would not be too old to carry out the experimentation by that time.
 
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Even a "great man" on the lines of Thomas Edison is still going to go through several failed attempts before finding something that works well enough to be worth the trouble.

I'm not saying he can't come up with something, but it's going to be a drawn out experiment, not a lucky doodle.

Perhaps our "great man" won't single-handedly invent the steam engine, but it was a train of thought that had the Industrial Revolution begun in China, it would probably have started through that general process. Note that no expeditions to America were needed!
 
That seems like it might work and would be a cool TL, but what's stopping some asshole emperor or imperial red tape from shutting down the whole proto-industrial/capitalist getup for political/ideological reasons?
 
That seems like it might work and would be a cool TL, but what's stopping some asshole emperor or imperial red tape from shutting down the whole proto-industrial/capitalist getup for political/ideological reasons?
Luck and lots of it. You have to have a chain of competent emperors who like the steam power and especially ones who like the people who research it in order to get a foot in the door. Would it be impossible at the beginning of the Qing dynasty?
 
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