Mind the Door-Nixon Wins in 1960

Electric Monk

Electric Monk

alt_historian said:
I got a copy of the original Frost/Nixon interviews, on which the current film is based, free with the paper last Sunday... still need to watch them, though. Especially since its apparently the closest anyone got him to make to an apology for Watergate.
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The current film, while interesting, is carefully edited and omits the background.

In reality Nixon was making a six hundred grand off the interviews, and knew he had to say something to get high ratings. Even then, he was his usual self. In fact people watching the interviews at the time considered it pretty bad.

See Elizabeth Drew for more.
 

SteveW

Brown Changes The Game

Kennedy was in an impossible situation. His chances of winning the nomination were slim, but he had irrevocably damaged his re-election hopes in Massachusetts in the face of an angry electorate. It was time to consider pulling out, but he had not given up hope.

But the future was soon to be decided for him. On 1st March, Pat Brown threw in the towel and backed Stuart Symington, in a statement bitterly critical of the "divisive" Kennedy which curiously ignored Hubert Humphrey. Brown released his delegates but counselled that they transfer to Senator Symington-most acquiesced. Kennedy was now utterly adrift, miles behind Humphrey and Symington.

Nixon was cock-a-hoop. Kennedy, the most charismatic of the Democrats on parade, had been dealt a fatal blow.
 

Standard X

SteveW said:
Kennedy was in an impossible situation. His chances of winning the nomination were slim, but he had irrevocably damaged his re-election hopes in Massachusetts in the face of an angry electorate. It was time to consider pulling out, but he had not given up hope.

But the future was soon to be decided for him. On 1st March, Pat Brown threw in the towel and backed Stuart Symington, in a statement bitterly critical of the "divisive" Kennedy which curiously ignored Hubert Humphrey. Brown released his delegates but counselled that they transfer to Senator Symington-most acquiesced. Kennedy was now utterly adrift, miles behind Humphrey and Symington.

Nixon was cock-a-hoop. Kennedy, the most charismatic of the Democrats on parade, had been dealt a fatal blow.
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Why would Kennedy even risk a rematch with Nixon in 64? Didn't he learn anything from the Adlai Stevenson episode? JFK would have far too smart to attempt anything that crazy. He knew damn well he'd be defeated in a landslide.
 

SteveW

Standard X said:
Why would Kennedy even risk a rematch with Nixon in 64? Didn't he learn anything from the Adlai Stevenson episode? JFK would have far too smart to attempt anything that crazy. He knew damn well he'd be defeated in a landslide.
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Don't forget that ITTL, Kennedy loses to Nixon by a margin much smaller than Stevenson lost to Eisenhower by on his first run. He's got himself elected Governor to be able to use executive experience as a tool.
 
Emperor Norton I

Emperor Norton I

On Vietnam, I think Nixon would have "pulled a Lyndon" when he saw it politically fit to do so. He was a bit of a hawk on foreign policy and one of the strongest and staunchest anti-communist in the political arena, and could have seen mass troop deployment and US involvement as called for to defend against Communist aggression.

SteveW said:
Don't forget that ITTL, Kennedy loses to Nixon by a margin much smaller than Stevenson lost to Eisenhower by on his first run. He's got himself elected Governor to be able to use executive experience as a tool.
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A few critiques there. Firstly, Legislative and Executive experience are relatively interchangeable and I doubt JFK would leave the Senate for Governorship, though it's possible. Secondly, Jack wouldn't risk it in 1964 because he would take into account the popularity of a standing President going for reelection and the fact that losing could destroy him as a viable candidate for a winnable election like it did Stevenson or Stassen or any of the other people who run so much you don't care anymore (I don't think the political fallout and upheaval you postulate for Kennedy and a Democratic party in 1960 is all too likely too. Kennedy only paid lip service to Civil Rights in the early days and on par with anything Nixon did, if that, and Johnson was a known Civil Rights supporter. Likewise, if he came damn close and people knew his religion -and he had put a major portion of that issue to rest- I don't think the Democrats would pounce on him for it too greatly). 1968 maybe because I think he'd bide his time, but not 1964.
 
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