Military Projects Cancelled by the End of the Cold War

Worst part of that is that the Perry's were a low cost compromise themselves, the "low" part of the high/low mix that budget restraints forced on the Fleet. The design was supposed to do the "scut work" of ocean escort while the Spruances worked with the Battle Groups. Of course their were never enough Spruances to go around so...

So an early 70s design, which was always meant to be a low cost alternative, is getting new life because a brand new pair of designs (which currently are costing WAY over a BILLION DOLLARS each) can't carry their own water.

FML
Is there anyway to get the POS LCS do to anything worth a damn or is the class just totally fucked?
 
Just to pile on CalBear's deserved rant against the LCS, it's so bad that the US Navy is seriously considering reactivating mothballed Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates as well as extending the service life of the Burke DDGs.

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/13/cn...g-life-extension-options-build-355-ship-fleet

There are a lot of hulls in the fleet that have been over worked and aged prematurely over the last 15 years. A continued Cold War would probably not see the LCS developed as it is supposed to fight insurgents close in to shore. Instead you would see continued evolution of traditional ship classes. I'm having trouble finding anything that would be suitable as the main Fleet building plan developed after the 1st Gulf War, SC-21, was focused on developing more land attack capable ships like the Zumwalt which lead to the idea of the LCS. If there is a continued need to be able to defend the G-I-UK Gap and protect convoys across the Atlantic from missile and sub attack then those plans are worthless. What's interesting is the US sold and gave away a lot of Perry-class frigates to allies, many of whom have upgraded their capabilities! So there are OTL examples of what an upgrade/life extension program would look like for the Perry class. It is likely a continued Cold War means those ship are not sold off and are instead upgraded and kept by the US. Maybe instead of building a new frigate the Navy just builds more Burkes or a new class of DDG and phases out the frigate class.

You kow I always realized the LCS where bad I never just realized they were Alaska level bad
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Is there anyway to get the POS LCS do to anything worth a damn or is the class just totally fucked?
There is apparently some hope that the ASW role might be salvageable with the addition of a better tail (towed array) and a different hull mounted active system. The problem then becomes that the LCS has relatively short legs, especially if it is going to be used in the ASW roles (which requires a lot of dashing about and high speed runs followed by drifting).
 
Is there anyway to get the POS LCS do to anything worth a damn or is the class just totally fucked?

They're totally fucked. No really there's been nothing but problems with them. The multi-role modular systems don't work. The ship is considered a liability in combat because of its thin hull so it can't actually do the close in shore fighting it was designed for.

Foxtrot Alpha has a pretty concise rundown of the problems and the plans for a new FFG(X) to replace them. What will really piss off CalBear is that they will continue building LCS to keep the shipyards busy until the new frigate design is ready.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-littoral-combat-ship-is-a-disaster-and-this-is-the-1796783565
 

SsgtC

Banned
I'm fairly sure the grandson of the fool who managed the CB program was in charge of the LCS.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that the Alaskas were actually MORE capable than the LCS. At least the Alaskas found something worthwhile to do (shore bombardment and AA). And they carried the most advanced and capable 12" gun to ever go to sea (better armor penetration than the 14"/45 mounted on the Standards).

That's what should really get people upset. That the Alaskas, a ship class considered the most useless ever commissioned by the USN, were better ships than the LCS.
 
I wonder why the navy is still ordering them and not just building more Burkes with the money if you want to keep the yards busying at the very least build something that works
 
If you ask me, either they fix the darn LCS or just replace it with something more efficient and/or cheaper; I don't know well about this navy stuff (since I'm not much of a navy person to begin with) but it's something for me to put my two cents on this topic.

Speaking of which I wonder why would the LCS not exist in a continuing cold war? like wouldn't something like that function for low intensity warfare in regions with a maritime border on the sea?
 
Pretty sure the nuclear cruisers would have been kept on for another 5-10 years too, suitably updated with AEGIS of course. Not so sure about Long Beach as she was an old girl by the late 80s, I'm thinking more the Californias etc.
 
There is apparently some hope that the ASW role might be salvageable with the addition of a better tail (towed array) and a different hull mounted active system. The problem then becomes that the LCS has relatively short legs, especially if it is going to be used in the ASW roles (which requires a lot of dashing about and high speed runs followed by drifting).

Problem with ASW is you've got to design the ship for it from the start. Lots of compromises, lots of equipment mounts to prevent hull noise and underwater noise. It doesn't make asw impossible, but if the design isn't quiet the sub has a hell of an advantage.
 
Is there anyway to get the POS LCS do to anything worth a damn or is the class just totally fucked?
LCS is less of a POS than claimed, project was a shitshow at least in the early days, far too optimistic and far too rushed, and the issues with undercrewing and the crew model were obvious back as early as 2005 from experiments in the SpruCan's

But the LCS has the helicopter facilities of a DDG on a hull a third the size. It can do anti piracy, drug interdiction, pull into port flying the stars and stripes and backstop the Coastguard even without the mission modules, freeing up DDG's and CG's that were doing those jobs before. Modules have been a disappointment, but the LCS can sweep mines now if not as well as claimed, and redeploy far better than any previous US minewarfare vessel. Anti Surface I will admit is an extreme disappointment and probably a flawed concept to begin with, the helo's with racks of hellfires make better boat killers even if it worked as planned, and they should have put on proper ASM's like they are doing now from the beginning. ASW, still has issues, but at the very least it can carry extra ASW helo's to prosecute someone else's contact

Also adjusted for Inflation a later built Independence (the more expensive variant, $584m cost cap) is still cheaper than an OHP (~679 million adjusted for inflation), which "can't see shit, can't shoot shit". I think the navy is only looking at reactivating the Perry's to shut up people asking for that by saying how much it would cost, and how little they would bring, considering they only have a 76mm gun, 2 25mm guns, 2 triple torpedo launchers and a Phalanx, I don't think they intend to produce anything more than a cost analysis
If you ask me, either they fix the darn LCS or just replace it with something more efficient and/or cheaper; I don't know well about this navy stuff (since I'm not much of a navy person to begin with) but it's something for me to put my two cents on this topic.

Speaking of which I wonder why would the LCS not exist in a continuing cold war? like wouldn't something like that function for low intensity warfare in regions with a maritime border on the sea?
Problem with major procurement like this is long lead times, basically a max effort replacement would not produce anything for 10 years or so, though efforts have made pretty good progress at fixing the LCS's flaws

In the Cold War the US was worried enough about defending the REFORGER convoys, it was not going to build anything not optimized for that task unless it had an equally important role elsewhere in a WW3 scenario
 
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The whole SDI initative. The end of the cold war meant no more space lasers & co.

SDI would probably continue, although that depends on political factors in the United States. The lasers and particle beams would have been too expensive and technological infeasible for the time, but the more practical elements of SDI like Brilliant Pebbles (small space-based kinetic interceptors) could be developed.

If SDI systems are deployed into orbit, then the DC-X rocket (which was developed to launch SDI components quicker, cheaper, and more reliably than the Shuttle could) or something similar could enter service. That would be a huge boon for spaceflight, if a reusable single-stage-to-orbit launch vehicle were to become a reality.
 
SDI would probably continue, although that depends on political factors in the United States. The lasers and particle beams would have been too expensive and technological infeasible for the time, but the more practical elements of SDI like Brilliant Pebbles (small space-based kinetic interceptors) could be developed.
Indeed, I can see right leaning politicians more willing to continue with the SDI while left ones aren't so much, at least from my perspective; heck I'm not sure what alternatives to SDI are out there outside of just using nukes to deter nukes and/or war in general (though I have a theory that having an integrated world economy ala OTL's post-cold war world might do the trick but then again people thought the same way before WWI).
 
There's also the RAH-66 commanche. Cancelled in 2004 because it was expensive but conceived in the Cold War to replace the Apache.

The Comanche was not going to replace the Apache but to enhance the Apache. The Comanche was to be the scout and recon helicopter while the Apache would have still been the big gun tank killer. The Comanche was to be the eyes and ears for the Apache.
 
The Comanche was not going to replace the Apache but to enhance the Apache. The Comanche was to be the scout and recon helicopter while the Apache would have still been the big gun tank killer. The Comanche was to be the eyes and ears for the Apache.
One of the things that killed the Comanche IMO if IIRC was this insane idea it could ferry itself across the Atlantic. Who the fuck would want to fly a helicopter across the pond? The requirements laid out for the Comanche couldn't work in the long run.
 
Can't remember if anyone mentioned LOSAT and the M8 AGS.

EDIT: There is also the BAe P.125 aircraft project. However I'm not sure it would have gone much further than it did in @. However it might have influenced a slightly different direction for a JSF/AVSTOL type project.
 
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Archibald

Banned
France: the Hades was to replace the obsolete Plutons theater ballistic missiles with far longer range (200 miles or more). For the sake of comparison, Pluton = Honest John, while Hades is closer from the Pershings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadès

The Charles de Gaulle carrier should have had a twin.
There was also than European frigate program that went bust.
More Rafales - the Armée de l'Air wanted no less than 450 combat aircrafts. I remember an old newspaper from 1993 mentioning 320 Rafales, but I don't know if the Aéronavale was included. They wanted 100 Rafales (but only got 60 of them OTL).
 
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