Military dictatorship in FRG

[Monk78]

If in the 1960s height of the Cold War pro US BW military officers stage a coup and install a military dictatorship in FRG
This regime promises
Full support in Vietnam inc troops if needed
Blindly follow US policies without argument in contrast to grudging support from other Allies
Agrees shoulder more burden of defence of Europe against Soviets with improving FRG economy
As in OTL continue the denazification process
But in return want US to supply the latest weapons to FRG and support expansion of its navy and airforce ( much more than OTL)

think of Taiwan or ROK style military leadership

how will US USSR and rest of Europe react

 

[Avrorrange]

Less East Germans try to travel to the west.German economy goes to bust because of the dictatorship.Increasing Communist infiltration of the West. Communism actually gets support. The US finds themselves a Vietnam in Europe.

 

[Scerus]

Well, I think public opposition to the deployment of West German troops to South Vietnam would be so overwhelmingly unpopular even a military dictatorship wouldn't attempt it.
Even dictatorships are often subject to public opinion.

 

[Dom Dom]

For most of the western bloc reaction would be mild at best but knowing that certain members would have something to say about this development (aka. most members of NATO) I imagine Germany having a strained but begrudgingly accepted relationship between it and NATO for the sake of containing communism but for the eastern bloc they would have a field day. As now East Germany could easily be proclaimed by the Soviets as the only legitimate government of all of Germany left as the Government of the West are now being infiltrated and controlled by the Capitalist /Nazi remnant's funded by the US or some other justification Soviet propaganda could come up with.

 

[Marius Mazzini]

If in the 1960s height of the Cold War pro US BW military officers stage a coup and install a military dictatorship in FRG
This regime promises
Full support in Vietnam inc troops if needed
Blindly follow US policies without argument in contrast to grudging support from other Allies
Agrees shoulder more burden of defence of Europe against Soviets with improving FRG economy
As in OTL continue the denazification process
But in return want US to supply the latest weapons to FRG and support expansion of its navy and airforce ( much more than OTL)

think of Taiwan or ROK style military leadership

how will US USSR and rest of Europe react

This would almost certainly provoke a mass civil disobedience campaign by the German left including large-scale protests as well as a general strike by labour unions. Even if the West German junta offers the most benign agenda, Willy Brandt and the like will resist another 1933 to the last breath. Expect the Stasi to promote violent resistance as well including a larger Red Army Faction. I doubt this dictatorship would be able to last that long.

 

[Monk78]

This would almost certainly provoke a mass civil disobedience campaign by the German left including large-scale protests as well as a general strike by labour unions. Even if the West German junta offers the most benign agenda, Willy Brandt and the like will resist another 1933 to the last breath. Expect the Stasi to promote violent resistance as well including a larger Red Army Faction. I doubt this dictatorship would be able to last that long.

German generals tell Americans, we are threatened by communist revolution
Help us quash this
The big red Alsatian is digging in our backyard

 

[Monk78]

Well, public opposition to the deployment of West German troops to South Vietnam would be so overwhelmingly unpopular even a military dictatorship wouldn't attempt it.
Even dictatorships are often subject to public opinion.

How about German troops in US uniforms of a private Christian company that is fully supported by conservatives politicians in America

 

[Monk78]

Less East Germans try to travel to the west.German economy goes to bust because of the dictatorship.Increasing Communist infiltration of the West. Communism actually gets support. The US finds themselves a Vietnam in Europe.

I think west will still likely be a lot more prosperous than GDR , so I don’t see that happening
The leftist in Europe might turn violent which will provide more ammo for German right

 

[Monk78]

One effect I see is France and UK moderating their position with USSR to counter balance Germany

 

[Sam R.]

>As in OTL continue the denazification process
I see what you did there.

The RAF have a correct line and get mass support?
What kind of dystopia is this?

yours,
Sam R.

 

[Lascaris]

For most of the western bloc reaction would be mild at best but knowing that certain members would have something to say about this development (aka. most members of NATO) I imagine Germany having a strained but begrudgingly accepted relationship between it and NATO for the sake of containing communism but for the eastern bloc they would have a field day. As now East Germany could easily be proclaimed by the Soviets as the only legitimate government of all of Germany left as the Government of the West are now being infiltrated and controlled by the Capitalist /Nazi remnant's funded by the US or some other justification Soviet propaganda could come up with.

For most of the Western block reaction would be anything but mild. This is 20 years after the end of WW2. Yes the polite official line was blaming it on the Nazis not Germans. The reality of the thing was that the public in the rest of Europe blamed Germans in general and this included people in government. A military coup? Here we come again for the third round. If Thatcher and not only Thatcher for example was not entirely happy with German reunification in 1990s just wait for the reaction of De Gaulle at the news that a bunch of Wermacht veterans, and in the 60s every mid and high ranking officer in the Bundeswehr is one, have seized control of the FRG by force.

I would be anything but surprised if there was military intervention in the FRG and people outside Germany would be cheering the intervention on.

 

[Retro_Reaction]

Weirdly enough, I could see the US Army backing a coup of German officers if a right wing figure comes into power, Military control would only last until elections take place, probably a fortnight at most, but I couldn't see the USA, France and GB allowing a Bundeswehr coup or military junta to take control for any other reason.

The Bundeswehr could take on an almost Turkish attitude of the army being the bipartisan institution that secures democracy.

 

[Lascaris]

Weirdly enough, I could see the US Army backing a coup of German officers if a right wing figure comes into power, Military control would only last until elections take place, probably a fortnight at most, but I couldn't see the USA, France and GB allowing a Bundeswehr coup or military junta to take control for any other reason.

The Bundeswehr could take on an almost Turkish attitude of the army being the bipartisan institution that secures democracy.

On risk of venturing into modern politics, the Turkish army launching coups once per decade on average, every time it did not like election results hardly constituted a "bipartisan institution securing democracy". "Clique, controlling government to its own ends, overthrowing by force anyone democratically elected that might threaten said control" is... shall we say more accurate?

 

[NHBL]

If a German dictatorship is getting that level of weaponry, France will NOT be happy. For that matter, a lot of people in the United States, that don't care about dictatorships elsewhere, will see shadows of the war looming.

 

[David T]

All the chancellors of the FRG in the 1960s--Adenauer, Erhard, Kiesinger--were perfectly satisfactory for the United States. Why on earth would it back a coup against them which would simply give an enormous propaganda boost to the Soviet Union, the GDR and Communist parties throughout Europe? Even if Bundeswehr officers were dreaming of such a coup--and I know of no evidence they were--they would have to know that neither the US nor its allies would tolerate it.

For comparison, the US not only did not back the anti-de Gaulle coup in France and Algeria in 1961 but "President John F. Kennedy himself contacted de Gaulle to pledge his support, including military assistance, if needed." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961#Theories_involving_CIA_and_BND_involvement As I noted elsewhere,, https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...-de-gaulle-coup-in-1961.437764/#post-16576261 ("Of course in OTL there were allegations that the CIA did help, but this seems to have been disinformation--and surprisingly, it may have been not KGB disinformation but French conservative disinformation prompted precisely by resentment of JFK's and the CIA's sympathies with Algerian anticolonialists! https://books.google.com/books?id=f1HwAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA124)" But there is absolutely no reason to think there would be a French-style coup attempt in the FRG anyway--there would be no motivation comparable to keeping Algeria French.

 

[Garrison]

The USA backing something that looks very like the resurrection of Prussian militarism? Yeah I don't see them being happy about that, regardless of whether the officers in question have been whitewashed after WW2.

 

[Monk78]

The USA backing something that looks very like the resurrection of Prussian militarism? Yeah I don't see them being happy about that, regardless of whether the officers in question have been whitewashed after WW2.

But they wear American uniforms and steeped in American kulture

 

[Garrison]

But they wear American uniforms and steeped in American kulture

I of course was referring to the 'clean Wehrmacht' myth. The Americans are perfectly aware that these German officers were happy to collude in mas murder until the war went against them.

 

[RedSword12]

This isn't ASB, but it would not be easy to make happen. Stuff like the FRG government going socialist, Allende-style, so the U.S. Government is scared enough to support a military coup. Might work, but it would require a lot of things going in that direction for that to arise.

 

[Monk78]

This isn't ASB, but it would not be easy to make happen. Stuff like the FRG government going socialist, Allende-style, so the U.S. Government is scared enough to support a military coup. Might work, but it would require a lot of things going in that direction for that to arise.

Maybe far stronger leftist forces in Europe
Losing Greece and maybe Italy to communists?