Middle East Religion in place of Christianity


  • Total voters
    47
Jesus isn't born in 4 B.C., What religion(s) are anatolia and arabia for the next millennium? Is it Roman polytheism, one of the cults (probably Mithraism or Cybele), Zoroastrianism, or even Buddhism? And when the Turks start invading what religion do they choose to join in the absence of Islam?
 
I don't think any one religion would dominate the whole middle east like Islam does today. You'd have Zoroastrianism in Persia but hard to say in the other regions. So many butterfly's without Christianity.
 
Probably ME would be quiet multireligion. There would be Zoroastrianism, Eastern mystery cults, Mihtraism, Greek Polytheism at least on coastal regions and Anatolia, notable Jewish communities in several cities and if you include Egypt you have too some form of Egyptian polytheism. And possiblity too pre-Islamic Arab polytheism. So there wouldn't be one dominant religion.
 
Probably ME would be quiet multireligion. There would be Zoroastrianism, Eastern mystery cults, Mihtraism, Greek Polytheism at least on coastal regions and Anatolia, notable Jewish communities in several cities and if you include Egypt you have too some form of Egyptian polytheism. And possiblity too pre-Islamic Arab polytheism. So there wouldn't be one dominant religion.
So what religion will the Turks probably be when they form the Nottoman empire?
 
Wouldn't Turkish invasion or at least Ottoman Empire butterflied away? And if they still are coming, probably they are Trengrists.
I'm not sure nerfing Christianity will butterfly away the reasons that the Turks migrated into Anatolia. I mean, the timing might be different, sure, and the results, but there's always a chance we still end up with a nomadic steppe tribe forging an empire and expanding into similar areas as OTL.

Edit: As for religion, Tengriism perhaps, but Buddhism is also likely if Christian missionaries aren't proselytising in the Middle East/Central Asia.
 
So, is the region likely to have an upper class of Tengri overlords for centuries or will the Turks eventually go native with one of the religions?
The Turks were already adopting the religions of every group they were in contact with. Confucianism, Buddhism, or Zoroastrianism, the Turks had no issues with switching religions if it suited them. They would most likely go native.
 
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The Turks were already adopting the religions of every group they were in contact with. Confucianism, Buddhism, or Zoroastrianism, the Turks had no issues with switching religions if it suited them. They would most likely go native.
Any particular faith from the poll they'd convert to?
 
Any particular faith from the poll they'd convert to?
My answer is I can't answer that. You are asking me what happens 400-500 years after your PoD, the answer could be any of the above or neither. About 50 years after a PoD, improbable events start to happen more often and things become increasingly unpredictable. Especially with such a huge PoD as Jesus never existing. After 500 years, we are in "anything can happen" territory.
 
My answer is I can't answer that. You are asking me what happens 400-500 years after your PoD, the answer could be any of the above or neither. About 50 years after a PoD, improbable events start to happen more often and things become increasingly unpredictable. Especially with such a huge PoD as Jesus never existing. After 500 years, we are in "anything can happen" territory.
Just trying to figure out who'd win the region's religion hunger games. Islam won otl you know.
 
Just trying to figure out who'd win the region's religion hunger games. Islam won otl you know.

Like previously stated, non-existence of Jesus would change history dramatically. Lack of Jesus would mean no Christianity in Rome and really different political things afterwards. Europe would look totally different. Since there is not Christiany, there is not Islam too. Removing of Jesus would change history of Europe, Middle East and North Africa totally unrecognsible only in 500 years. Anyone could write whatever as long as it is not ASB territory and no one couldn't say that writer is wrong. So it is just what you decide if you would write that.
 
Also, calling the religious situation of the ME pre-Christianity 'hunger games' is kind of inaccurate. Aside from Judaism and Zoroastrianism (and their assorted offshoots) the religions in play were polytheistic and generally pretty happy to syncretise. Nobody much cared if you worshipped Ba'al Hammon, Ištar, Hathor and Zeus. So long as you participated in the community festivals and didn't make trouble.
 
There is an argument to be made that Turkic invasions went the way they did because the Abbasids were recruiting Turks from central Asia for their military. Without that, it is entirely possible that the migrations take different directions (Europe, India, or possibly both).
Without Christianity, Zoroastrianism probably does not develop an "orthodoxy" and remains relatively pluralistic and syncretic (relative to OTL). However, more generally, the old Gods were not speaking anymore, as Plutarch put it. Some religious shakeup is going to happen.
 
The question as posed doesn't work.

Christianity and Islam are very, very weird among world religions in that they really resist syncretizing influences and tend to spread like wildfire. Judaism and Zoroastrianism were extremely resistant to syncretism, and Buddhism was proselytizing, but Christianity was the first faith which was really well suited to be both. Without it there's very little chance that you have a single religion come to dominate the region.

The likely outcome is that the Middle East and Mediterranean world come to look a lot like China. What I mean by this is that Neo-Platonism, Stocism and other Hellenic philosophies occupy central role (like Buddhism and Confucianism) while most people follow folk cults and worship an array of gods depending on their heritage and needs. Likely something similar to OTL Gnosticism spawns out of Platonism even without Christianity, it may become the dominant belief. But without Christianity our very defintion of religion is going to change from an exclusive categorization to something that is unique to literally every individual.
 
But without Christianity our very defintion of religion is going to change from an exclusive categorization to something that is unique to literally every individual.
Well Christianity was unique in that it combined a bunch of things that the Romans didn't consider part of religion.

For the Romans, religion was the ritual maintenance of cults of gods and goddesses, a pretty much completely separate affair from philosophy and social welfare/community leadership.

Without Christianity, would these separate spheres coalesce under the name of religion in the first place?

I get the feeling that they would eventually based on my understanding of the interface between Chinese ritual cults and the more abstract philosophies, as well as the fundamental links between Indian philosophy and cultic practice, and the question is, which group apart from Christianity would be best able to meld those three aspects into one common sphere distinct from normal society.
 
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