Mexico joins the United States...in the 1990s?

[interpoltomo]

Various areas in mexico are liberalizing abortion laws slowly as of the late '10s OTL. However, given the ah Drama over it in US politics this might not happen by now in TTL, and be more of a thing in ttl's late '20s or even '30s.

 

[History Learner]

By 2016 ITTL, we have an American Mexico that has seen an economic transformation, a generation being taught English in schools, and added bonus, has seen American boys from the Mexican states fighting in Afghanistan.

On that note, another possible ramification of a more domestic focus for the United States could seriously affect Afghanistan:

What happened was this: In April of 1997 the Taliban launched a major offensive aimed at taking control over the northern third of Afghanistan, which to that point had remained free and under the control of regional leaders who were commonly referred to as warlords.

One of those regional leaders, General Malick, tricked the Taliban and managed to capture almost all of their frontline troops, along with most of their heavy weaponry. It was an utter disaster for the Taliban. The road to the capital, Kabul, was wide open. The Taliban were totally vulnerable and could have easily been wiped out.

I sent a message to Commander Masood and to others that Kabul should be liberated and that the King should be brought back to oversee a transition government, which then would hopefully evolve into a democratically elected government, perhaps like what happened in Spain where the King returned and it evolved into a democratic government; but before the anti-Taliban forces could strike, Assistant Secretary of State Rick Indefurth and American U.N. Ambassador Bill Richardson flew to northern Afghanistan and convinced the anti-Taliban leadership that this was not the time for an offensive. Instead, they insisted this was the time for a cease-fire and an arms embargo.

This clearly was a statement of U.S. policy. Two top foreign policy leaders in the Clinton administration flew to northern Afghanistan to convince the anti-Taliban forces not to take advantage of their one opportunity to soundly defeat and, thus eliminate, this enemy.

These Clinton appointees saved the Taliban; and let me underscore, by this time the evil nature of these Islamic Nazis was clearly evident. Right after the cease-fire and the release of prisoners brokered by these Clinton administration geniuses, the Pakistanis began a Berlin-like airlift to resupply and re-equip the Taliban, obviously financed with Saudi money. If I knew of this massive resupply effort, certainly the Clinton administration officials who had set up this scenario knew about it.

So why were the anti-Taliban leaders not notified of this situation? Why did we continue an arms embargo on the anti-Taliban forces, even as the Taliban were rearmed and resupplied? Well, the answer is it was U.S. policy.

 

[DreadDjinn]

How is this not ASB? Thier was no way on gods green earth that the typical US citizen is going to put up with this in the 1990s. They will see it as the destruction of the US and its culture. By the time thier is any chance of the people accepting it from a culture /language point of view, some years later you have the mess with Mexican drugs and gangs and such making it all but impossible.
Canada yes Mexico? No way on earth.
Heck in the 1990s we came close to seeing laws pass making English the official (and only) language and you think the US would except that many people in who speak little to no English?
Were any of you folks alive in the 90s?

That is fearmongering. US culture is a juggernaut. MCU movies and McDonalds are widely available on 6 continents. There is no American that hasn't had a taco before, that hasn't turned us into brown people yet.

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

That is fearmongering. US culture is a juggernaut. MCU movies and McDonalds are widely available on 6 continents. There is no American that hasn't had a taco before, that hasn't turned us into brown people yet.

The 1990s were all about anti-Mexico fearmongering. Crimes like Mark Kilroy's murder and the Yogurt Shop Murders. NAFTA sucking your factory job away. Etc. People were still somewhat sympathetic to immigrant workers, but there was zero public sentiment for any sort of an annexation of Mexico itself.

 

[Caesars11]

Republicans would have a heart attack at the idea of so many 'illegals' becoming US citizens.

As an American citizenwho is against illegal immigration I wouldn’t mind at all as there would be a process involved. I don’t want to stray into political chat but make a comment worth typing if you must

 

[htgriffin]

One thing to consider is the higher proportion of people in Mexico identifying at 'Indio' and how this will interact with the pan-Native-American movement in El Norte.

 

[History Learner]

Mexico and China have been in competition for a lot of the same economic space since about the 1980s, which makes me wonder if the influence of the new Mexican states would prevent the OTL support the United States had for China joining the WTO.

 

[Marc]

On the matter of social conservatism, it is notable Mexican City is the only place were Abortion is legalized in Mexico; even then, it is restricted to the first 12 weeks and 85% of gynecologists are conscientious objectors.

But birth control is a matter of public policy. Imagine how well that would go down up North. Their family planning services are integral.
Oh, and morning after pills are extremely easy to get. The anti-choice folk consider that abortion.

 

[interpoltomo]

Mexico and China have been in competition for a lot of the same economic space since about the 1980s, which makes me wonder if the influence of the new Mexican states would prevent the OTL support the United States had for China joining the WTO.

It took a populist-sounding democrat to get the US to go as free trade as OTL. Nunn or even a second term for bush 2 with no clinton presidency on top of adding a bunch of areas competing with china? Yeah, no big 90s expansion of free trade for the US.

The jobs flee the rustbelt as OTL but go to appalachia, michoacan or Chiapas instead of China.

 

[History Learner]

It took a populist-sounding democrat to get the US to go as free trade as OTL. Nunn or even a second term for bush 2 with no clinton presidency on top of adding a bunch of areas competing with china? Yeah, no big 90s expansion of free trade for the US.

The jobs flee the rustbelt as OTL but go to appalachia, michoacan or Chiapas instead of China.

What makes you think Appalachia?

 

[interpoltomo]

lower wages than the coasts

 

[President Benedict Arnold]

lower wages than the coasts

As far as polities go, most of Appalachia is coastal (North Carolina, etc.) and none of it has ever really been prosperous at any point in modern times.

It doesn’t have the population or infrastructure for becoming an industrial center and is literally just south of the steel/rust belt, which would be more attractive for those sorts of jobs than Appalachia ever could be.

 

[History Learner]

lower wages than the coasts

As far as polities go, most of Appalachia is coastal (North Carolina, etc.) and none of it has ever really been prosperous at any point in modern times.

It doesn’t have the population or infrastructure for becoming an industrial center and is literally just south of the steel/rust belt, which would be more attractive for those sorts of jobs than Appalachia ever could be.

You'd have to address the problems outlined by the Appalachian Land Ownership Survey.

 

[interpoltomo]

Appalachia was shorthand for "low wage bits of the US", fam, not an assertion that WV is suited to have an actual developed economy.

 

[History Learner]

Appalachia was shorthand for "low wage bits of the US", fam, not an assertion that WV is suited to have an actual developed economy.

Still, a more populist US might be more willing to address said problems and allow for development.

 

[interpoltomo]

Populism won't change geography. Incidently, that's why former mexico probably ends up at say an Italian/spanish level once it finishes converging by the early 2010s(am assuming 1991 annexation).

 

[History Learner]

Populism won't change geography. Incidently, that's why former mexico probably ends up at say an Italian/spanish level once it finishes converging by the early 2010s(am assuming 1991 annexation).

My thought was that, if we're assuming the GOP gets big in ex-Mexico, the Democrats might seek to expand their margins among Working Class Whites; to that end, seeking to curtail absentee land ownership in Appalachian in order to help foster industry could be a good move.

 

[sarahz]

As I said in the cartel thread, 64 new GOP senators for a long time given the relationship of GOP voting/states being net recipients of federal transfers, and how long it'd take to get mexico boosted up.

that seems extremely unlikely. It seems more likely the demographic would resemble Puerto Rico, which has been blocked from becoming a state largely because of the GOP antipathy to Hispanic voters (and Catholics)which is not going away any time soon in any time line where the GOP is dominated by hard right protestants.

 

[Wendell]

This could not be less plausible or desirable, on either side, quite frankly.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

This could not be less plausible or desirable, on either side, quite frankly.

Is there another POD besides the 1990s when this would be workable? Possibly runaway US imperialism combined with a situation in Mexico bad enough to fork over sovereignty? Perhaps Mexico becomes a US territory and is admitted to the US in pieces along with the likes of Alaska and Hawaii.