Mexico-CSA vs USA?

So I've been reading some threads about the civil war and usually to have a succesful CSA, the british have to help them out, but today I had this idea what if instead there had been a CSA-Mexico alliance, the CSA could promise them the land they lost in the mexican-american war in exchange for their help, do you guys think the Union could still win? I personally think so even though it would be much bloodier and the US probably would end up annexing the northern states or maybe like others have said to the tropic of cancer, as punishment for helping the CSA

edit: of course assuming there was no french intervention in Mexico
 
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Mexico is in the middle of a brutal civil war of its own. The liberal republicans versus conservatives monarchists with the French thrown in for good measure. Neither side can afford to assist the CSA regardless of the offered rewards.
 
Mexico is in the middle of a brutal civil war of its own. The liberal republicans versus conservatives monarchists with the French thrown in for good measure. Neither side can afford to assist the CSA regardless of the offered rewards.

oh yeah I know that, I forgot to include that assuming there was no french intervention I think ill edit it in
 
No. The CSA leadership had (insane) plans to annex much of the American southwest, and would not have been in a position to offer Mexico that land anyway. Furthermore, American support for further annexation came mostly from the slaveholding South. I don't think that Mexicans are so stupid as to back expansionist white supremacists north of the border. And that's all before considering the Mexican Civil War.
 
So I've been reading some threads about the civil war and usually to have a succesful CSA, the british have to help them out, but today I had this idea what if instead there had been a CSA-Mexico alliance, the CSA could promise them the land they lost in the mexican-american war in exchange for their help, do you guys think the Union could still win? I personally think so even though it would be much bloodier and the US probably would end up annexing the northern states or maybe like others have said to the tropic of cancer, as punishment for helping the CSA

I don't think this would be likely even with Mexico under Imperial administration. In fact, if the C.S.A. survives, I actually could see them invading Mexico instead......
 
No. The CSA leadership had (insane) plans to annex much of the American southwest, and would not have been in a position to offer Mexico that land anyway. Furthermore, American support for further annexation came mostly from the slaveholding South. I don't think that Mexicans are so stupid as to back expansionist white supremacists north of the border. And that's all before considering the Mexican Civil War.
Desperate times call for desperate measures, besides they could offer those lands doesn't mean they will really end up giving the land back to mexico, since they would've probably ended up invading Mexico anyways, and yes I understand support for annexation came from the south but there's no way the public would let the mexicans off the hook
 
Mexico won't be able to do much

The logistics into the area are poor and the Mexican navy is incompetent and effectively nonexistent

This will make the blockade looser but it will do little else

The CSA allying with Mexico could cause less support for the CSA as they are seen as bringing in brown furriners to fight for them, if this happens early enough parts of the South might not secede
 

frlmerrin

Banned
An agreement between Maximillianist Mexico and the CSA relatively early in the ACW is a fascinating POD. It has huge advantages for both sides. The French could either isolate the Juaristas or chase them across the international border. Equally important the CSA would be a much weaker and less hostile neighbour than the Union after the war. Whatever the dreams of empire of its rulers, the reality was that it would be too weak to attack Mexico for may years.

The French could achieve these aims by taking Fort Yuma or even just controling the head of the Sea of Cortez and the lower Rio Colorado. This would give the CSA a strategic anchor and supply base for its New Mexico territory in the west and could isolate it from California. With such a situation early in the war it opens the possibility of a joint occupation/liberation of Southern California later with perhaps a territorial split whereby the then small hide port of San Diego and points south are ceded to Mexico whilst the port of San Pedro and Los Angeles are taken by the Confederacy.

Realistically the people of Northern California whilst overall were not loyal to the Union would find the Confederacy even more unpaletable. Northern California might seek independence from the USA but it would not become Confederate.

There is also the possibility of French logistical support for a CSA thrust a Fort Union although I consider this unlikely.

All of the above relies on the aquiesence if not the connivance of the British.
 
First of all, this alliance would be out of necessity, and would only come with Maximiliano successfully capturing Juárez (this would happen if Juárez gets captured in Chihuahua in 1864). Without Juárez, the Republican cause would be dead, as he was the one who lobbied the most to get rid of the French. Juárez wouldn't work in such an alliance, due to the fact he refused to recognize the CSA, and would not change his point of view given how stubborn he was.

In the short run, Imperial Mexico would be too busy trying to implement its administrative changes. And won't be able to do anything to help its Confederate allies except for the token troop support and and materiel being sent over by land. In short, it won't be of much use as an ally.
 
Exactly what meaningful aid could Mexico provide the CSA during the Civil War. The Emperor was pretty busy trying to stay in control anyway, so how's he going to provide troops? Weapons, supplies, food assistance? Not likely. Even if Mexico could and would provide assistance, getting it to the front lines in would be very difficult as overland transport routes were minimal and the US blockaded Southern ports.

About the only way this might work [ASB ALERT COMING] would be if the CSA offered not just New Mexico-(which they didn't control anyway), but their entire country which they did still control. Offer to join in a lose confederation with Mexico that essentially extends Mexico into the SE USA, thereby giving confederate forces additional space into which it's armies can retreat and recoup - and have the assistance of local Mexican militias as well. This might also put France into the awkward position of extending its protection of Mexico into a de facto recognition of CSA independence from the USA. This would raise the issue of slavery again, which was illegal in Mexico, but if the CSA really wanted a separation from the US more than slavery (which they claim) then thats the only out. Fascinating in a Sobelesque sort of way but completely unrealistic.
 
Good argument, but irrelevant to the thread at hand, OP stipulates not French Intervention in Mexico
yeah but he did have some good points, I hadnt really thought about maximillian actually being able to help the CSA but it does make sense if they were able to capture Juarez the rebellion would be dead, ok now instead of assuming there was no french intervention lets assume maximillian does put down the rebellion and agrees to help the CSA, what now? would France join the war aswell?
 
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