Mexico Ascendant: The Tale of a Failed Texan Revolution

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Augenis

Augenis

theman7777 said:
I'd think that a war environment would increase the speed and urgency of the bombs construction, rather than decrease it. Also how can you say that at this point IOTL the US was stronger than TTL Mexico? I don't believe I've given evidence to the contrary.
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A war environment would mean that the majority of the country's resources are devoted to waging the war, which results that the nuclear program has less funding and less resources for constructing bomb after bomb after bomb.

And why would TTL Mexico be stronger than OTL United States? The US has a larger population, most likely boasts a much stronger economy and it's influence across the world is much greater.
 

theman7777

KarneeKarnay said:
In fact by nuking whats left this many times you risk wiping out any command structure. Instead of ending the war it should have carried on even longer.
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The Allies were aware that the Russian command was far away from any major civilian or industrial centers, as well as being deep underground, so it wasn't a major concern.
Augenis said:
And why would TTL Mexico be stronger than OTL United States? The US has a larger population, most likely boasts a much stronger economy and it's influence across the world is much greater.
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And what gives you the indication that the US is stronger in those ways? I've stated very little about the Mexican economy, and the last time I mentioned Mexican population was in the early 1900s I believe. Also, I have read several well-regarded TLs in which OTL WW2 is prolonged, and I've seen 15 nukes or more used in those timelines.
aap5454 said:
That division of Russia, when overlayed with the ethnic map, looks like a recipe for complete disaster and dozens of failed states. Sorry, but I don't think it's plausible to have a Kazakh emirate with probably more than 50% being Russians, same goes with the various Finno-Ugric republics with probable something like 75% Russian population, same goes for all those countries honestly. There's no way to really expel those Russians either without creating mass starvation and death. Sorry but those borders just look completely implausible.
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I mean, the post-war map OTL didn't exactly correspond to ethnic borders either, but the Russians somehow made it work through mass deportations and the like. The 1947 ethnic map wasn't entirely accurate in the fact that within a few years the various cultural groups designed to inhabit the new republics will have returned home, outnumbering the Russians (most Russians head to Russia, after all the people that were subject to deportations aren't exactly happy to be living alongside some of the same people who helped deport them). As for the expulsion of Russians, there will be some death from the migrations, but the ethnic shift will be more gradual, so that by 1955 Russians are a minority in almost all the new republics.
 
loneranger

loneranger

Finally got myself a Mexican history book and then found this wonderful TL. Binged through it in an hour - wonderful stuff! Frankly I love it.

Regarding comparing TTL Mexican strength vs OTL American strength, here's what I was able to dig up.

1940 US Census
5 California 6,907,387 West
6 Texas 6,414,824 South
22 Oklahoma 2,336,434 South
33 Colorado 1,123,296 West
34 Oregon 1,089,684 West
40 Utah 550,310 West
41 New Mexico 531,818 West
43 Arizona 499,261 West
48 Nevada 110,247 West

1950 UN Estimate
Mexico 28,296,000

Keep in mind, Mexico lost an untold number of citizens in the various wars between the Texan Revolution and 1950 (especially during the Mexican Revolution), plus a flight of immigrants, obviously. The numbers above would give us about 60 million citizens TTL Mexico vs 130 million OTL USA citizens. I think, given that this Mexico has been a lot more successful, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest something closer to 90 million citizens ITTL Mexico, if not more. For comparison, the US population grew by 30 million people between the 1920 and 1940 Censuses. Plus they've got gold and oil from California and Texas (and eventually OTL Mexican oil as well) plus they could be the recipient of fleeing European scientists who IOTL went to the United States - which ITTL isn't as nice of a place to travel to.

Regarding the TL itself - I love it. Two questions, while reading through Mexican history, I noticed that the caudillos, clerics, and creoles had an inordinate amount of influence (IMO in a largely negative direction). I noticed that I didn't see quite as much mention of them here - how was this Mexico able to break the power of those elite? Or are they still largely controlled by these disparate groups? My other question is will we see any famous OTL Americans (such as LBJ, the Bush family, Nixon, Reagan) who lived in or immigrated to land held by TTL Mexico - taking apart in TTL Mexican history? Could be interesting. I especially like the idea of Reagan as a famous immigrant actor in TTL's Mexico Hollywood. :)

Once again, wonderful, wonderful TL.
 
Augenis

Augenis

theman7777 said:
And what gives you the indication that the US is stronger in those ways? I've stated very little about the Mexican economy, and the last time I mentioned Mexican population was in the early 1900s I believe. Also, I have read several well-regarded TLs in which OTL WW2 is prolonged, and I've seen 15 nukes or more used in those timelines.
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Well, if you have given no indication that Mexico is stronger, why should I think it is stronger? ;)
 

theman7777

loneranger said:
130 million OTL USA citizens. I think, given that this Mexico has been a lot more successful, it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest something closer to 90 million citizens ITTL Mexico
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Considering that Mexico started receiving increased immigration as early as 1840, I would say that Mexico TTL has a population close to OTL American population at the same time.
Augenis said:
Well, if you have given no indication that Mexico is stronger, why should I think it is stronger? ;)
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You've got a point there...
 

AcaciaSgt

I would say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

But well, at the end of the day, it's not like it's that vital for their "strength" to match. Besides, something we also weren't told was the potency of the bombs. Perhaps that's also how they made that many, if they aren't as strong as OTL's yields.
 
Augenis

Augenis

AcaciaSgt said:
I would say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

But well, at the end of the day, it's not like it's that vital for their "strength" to match. Besides, something we also weren't told was the potency of the bombs. Perhaps that's also how they made that many, if they aren't as strong as OTL's yields.
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I mean, what's the point of spending resources on a weaker nuke when an average bomber raid can achieve the same level of destruction, then.
 
51
  • Index

    • theman7777

    51: The Iberian Civil War
    s-l300.jpg
    ​
    The first major post-WW2 conflict was the Iberian Civil War. While few who payed close attention to the power dynamic in post-war Europe were surprised by this event, it still had a huge impact on the emerging world order. As early as 1943 the forces of the Workers’ Union had begun to train Communist guerrillas in the parts of Spain and Portugal they occupied, as well as to spread propaganda. Following the withdrawal of most the Workers’ Union forces in late 1947, much of the surplus equipment was left in the hands of the Communists whose movement had been nurtured under Workers’ Union occupation.

    Beginning in early 1948, across Southern Spain and Portugal, there was a massive Communist uprising against the newly established Spanish and Portuguese governments. These governments had barely had enough time to begin rebuilding their nations and militaries, whereas the Communists had been training for the past 5 years, and were armed with the latest Workers’ Union tanks and armored vehicles. Thus, when the rebellion began it enjoyed quick success against the Spanish and Portuguese forces.

    The main source of contention in the international community was how to respond. While a resolution was adopted, it was too little too late. This intervention was largely airstrikes as well some money and armaments, and it did little to halt the Communist advance, and the conflict was done by the end of the year.
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    Map of the Socialist Federation of Iberia    ​
    In the aftermath, the Socialist Federation of Iberia was established, consisting of six autonomous regions, Spain, Portugal, Asturias, Galicia, Catalonia, and Basque Country. This was considered a major wake-up call for the international community, and clearly pointed out the growing divide between the communist and capitalist worlds. The anti-communists struck back by propping up the Spanish and Portuguese governments in exile, in their colonies, who were now flush with refugees from their home countries.
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    The World at the End of 1948​
     
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  • Index

    • Archangel

    The Iberic Peninsula will be a hotbed of rebellion, for the reasons I mentioned before. In Portugal's case, an eight of the population (give or take) will have trouble controlling the rest (the 1950 census, page 20 of the file (page 18 in numeration), column 3, that provides the population by province and district, gives an idea of the odds). I can imagine the north of Spain will be similar, and since Catalonia, and in a greater degree, the Basque Country, has a lot of Castillian speakers, the same is likely to happen.

    Edit: Federating Portugal and Spain will not be popular in Portugal, even among many on the left.

    Edit2:the link was broken, hope it works now.
     
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    aap5454

    Hmmm, were Basques the main power behind the rebellion? Otherwise, why the massive Basque Country? Much of their territory is pretty much 90% Castillian.

    Will France try anything funny in the future, or are they definitely down in the dust?
     

    theman7777

    aap5454 said:
    Hmmm, were Basques the main power behind the rebellion? Otherwise, why the massive Basque Country? Much of their territory is pretty much 90% Castillian.
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    The communists want the loyalty of the non-Castillian groups, so they rewarded them heavily in order to get them to be loyal.
     
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