Mexico Annexxed/Conquered bythe United States.

Is this possible at all?

From my understanding, at the end of the Mexican-American War many Democrats demanded more territory be acquiesced from Mexico, but the whigs opposed it. Is it actually possible, after defeating Mexico that it could be annexxed or conquered by the united states.
 
I really doubt that a full annexation of Mexico was ever in the cards during the Mexican-American War. As you stated, the Whigs were hostile to the war to begin with, and were opposed to taking as much territory as the US got in OTL.
Also, you have to bring the racial attitudes of the time into play. Most of the territory the United States gained was sparcely populated to begin with. If they had taken much of Mexico-proper, than the US would also have inherited a population of Mexicans who were not seen as White, who didn't even speak English and, worse of all, were Catholics! Also, as this is not the Decades of Darkness timeline, those same Mexicans would eventually be allowed to vote, when the new territories became states.
I do think that it would have been possible to take more territory, however. I could certainly see the Baja California as well as Sonora, Chihuahau and possibly (possibly!) Coahuila. These regions were also less populated, although not so much as we find in the territories the US actually annexed. Although much of the land is desert, there might have been regions which were open to cotton plantings, and I do believe that there was silver there as well.
But you still have to deal with a strong Whig opposition and, likely, the growing concerns of Northerners about adding so much territory which is likely to eventually become slave states (and the fact that slavery was very unpopular amognst the Mexican population, which may bring in a whole slew of other problems).
 
I think it would be similar to Russia where in there are people who are culturally white but are brown/yellow, I think it might develop like what Russia in OTL.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
There were many people at the time who thought that Manifest Destiny should extend to Panama. If they had won the internal propaganda war and caused a loud clammering for total annexation, I don't see how Mexico could have done much about it at the time. They had suffered an abject military defeat, their armies were in ruins, and their capital wain enemy hands. The Americans were in a position to dictate whatever terms they wanted.

But if the Americans had annexed Mexico, there would have been a great deal of guerrilla resistance throughout the country. It would have required a much larger army than the Americans possessed at the time to put down the insurgency, if it was possible at all.

Assuming they were successful and, years later, the Mexican people came to terms with being part of the United States, you'd have a huge population of non-white Catholics suddenly thrown into the American mix. It's somewhat fun to imagine how the Senate would look.

This would also have massive butterflies regarding the North-vs-South paradigm. On the one hand, I could see the Cholic influx frightening the rest of the country so much that the slavery question is pushed to the back burner of the national discourse. On the other, the Southerners wold be pushing for slavery to be introduced to even more territory than was acquired IOTL, and now they would be largely opposed by the native Mexican population of the new lands.

Interesting, to say the least.
 
I wonder if people are going about this the wrong way. Obviously if we go with a POD in 1846, it's too late.

But suppose that Spain holds onto Mexico for a few more years. (The handwaving in Europe to accomplish this mean this is a minor detail but shhh).

Tensions arise on the US-New Spain border, and to quote Futurama, "War were declared."

I think systematic defeats from the US (in the 1820s or 1830s, perhaps?) could shake up the Mexican social system, leading to insurrections and social strife.

Moreover, the war against the Spanish Empire will be different ideologically from an annexation of Mexican territory. (Cuba would probably be a big prize as well).

In such a scenario, I could see the Mexican elite petition to join the US, and at the time period the creoles would probably pass as white.

This is still unlikely, but I think it's a fun way to do it.
 

loughery111

Banned
That, and they also end up inheriting a vicious rebellion in the Yucatan that even OTL had successes against US troops.

It's entirely possible that the US might just content itself with a puppet state in the old Maya lands. They're too brown, too pagan, violently opposed to the white people running things (Americans are even whiter than the Mexican government...), and there's nothing of significant value to the US in the Yucatan, not even the land, considering that it's a deathtrap for them.
 
Is this possible at all?

Yes, and no. The United States did occupy Mexico for 11 months in OTL. However, any long term occupation/annexation would have been a huge disaster.

From my understanding, at the end of the Mexican-American War many Democrats demanded more territory be acquiesced from Mexico, but the whigs opposed it.

This is for the most part true but it is a HUGE oversimplification. A more accurate description would be: southern democrats demanded more, the army which was mostly Whig occupied Mexico at the time, northern whigs and democrats opposed it. Polk would have wanted more than what he got, but got more than what this division actually managed to handle.

There were many people at the time who thought that Manifest Destiny should extend to Panama. If they had won the internal propaganda war and caused a loud clammering for total annexation, I don't see how Mexico could have done much about it at the time. They had suffered an abject military defeat, their armies were in ruins, and their capital wain enemy hands. The Americans were in a position to dictate whatever terms they wanted.

For the most part true. Mexico could have not done much about it immediately. The occupation could have lasted longer, but not for much. As it has been noted above the United States now has a shite load of Catholic Mexicans to deal with. All of a sudden 1/5 of the US population became Mexican.

This 1/5 of Mexicans will not be given equal rights (or any rights at all). Sooner than later they will attempt to do something about it. You also have the over-nationalistic attitude of most upperclass Mexican at the time, which was a huge problem even from Mexico (since it was pretty much the only reason they refused to sell territory). This class of generals, land-owners, and politicians will not submit to American authority, and sooner than later they will be able to lead the masses in an uprising.

But if the Americans had annexed Mexico, there would have been a great deal of guerrilla resistance throughout the country. It would have required a much larger army than the Americans possessed at the time to put down the insurgency, if it was possible at all.

You put it quite well here.


Assuming they were successful and, years later, the Mexican people came to terms with being part of the United States, you'd have a huge population of non-white Catholics suddenly thrown into the American mix. It's somewhat fun to imagine how the Senate would look.

This would also have massive butterflies regarding the North-vs-South paradigm. On the one hand, I could see the Catholic influx frightening the rest of the country so much that the slavery question is pushed to the back burner of the national discourse. On the other, the Southerners wold be pushing for slavery to be introduced to even more territory than was acquired IOTL, and now they would be largely opposed by the native Mexican population of the new lands.

I think we are looking at a 3 way Civil War, happening almost as soon as Mexico is quelled. The South will want to expand slavery into Mexico. They would likely be successful in Veracruz and Tamaulipas where the land is good for it and the population (outside the ports of Veracruz and Tampico) is thin.

But blacks escaping into Mexico will not be returned and for the most part the Mexican population will be quite anti-slavery (although they will likely depreciate blacks). Even if they are not given a vote, they could stir revolts and what not. Aided with northern missionaries, and abolitionists. Slavery will not last long in most of Mexico before the whole thing errupts into war.

And we are back to the sour Mexican ex-leaders and generals wanting to make a comeback.


Interesting, to say the least.

If done corectly, yes. For the most part cliched.
 
It's entirely possible that the US might just content itself with a puppet state in the old Maya lands. They're too brown, too pagan, violently opposed to the white people running things (Americans are even whiter than the Mexican government...), and there's nothing of significant value to the US in the Yucatan, not even the land, considering that it's a deathtrap for them.
Possible, but not sure how likely. Public opinion in the US will certainly be overwhelmingly against the Maya rebels, when they weren't massacring the whites they made a point of enslaving them as a form of vengeance for the centuries of slavery they suffered. And public opinion in the Yucatan will certainly be overwhelmingly anti-American. A lot of Maya actually didn't side with the rebels, but now they've been taking over by a country that actually practices blatant slavery and is known for being anti-Indian they'll likely be scared enough to join the rebellion. On the other hand though, the British had an interest in aiding the Maya rebels, and would be even more interested if the US took Mexico. Not sure how much the US would want to risk coming into conflict with the Brits, but British aid probably won't be enough to avert their warmongering on its own and might actually galvanize them further.
 
The USA going all-Mexico would be a perfect way to overstretch and collapse the USA. In the 1840s the USA, to put it bluntly, has less than a snowball's chance in Hell of holding all-Mexico and attempts to do that on a straightforward basis would sap and erode the USA's strength to a point that for all practical purposes in international geopolitics it'll be irrelevant for several generations after it recognizes this.
 
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