Meta: Robert Kennedy Clichés?

RousseauX

Donor
Also Then Everything Changed by Jeff Greenfield has this exact scenario, basically there needs to be about 5 PoDs put together that let's RFK win the nom and the general election
 
Let’s drop some books. A number of these can be obtained for free borrowing either via OpenLibrary or Internet Archive (they’re the same, but weirdly results differ in allowing borrowing).

In no order at all...

I can vouch for much of Electric Monk's list - I haven't checked out the Powers That Be or the Power Broker, but definitely will off the back of these recommendations.

Two I'd add on economics and the period are:

Running Steel, Running America (Judith Stein)
This book offers an interesting perspective on tensions between the Civil Rights movement and union members/industrial workers, arguing that economic slowdown and growing globalisation, and Democratic policy responses to these forces, drove apart the New Deal coalition.

The Selling of the South (James C. Cobb)
About industrial development and the rise of the New South (in economic terms). Again also touches on divisions within the Democratic coalition re: attitudes to unions. It's been a while since I've read it, but I imagine it'd be a good starting point given RFK's highlighting Mississippi Delta poverty, which I imagine his presency would try to tackle.
 

Bomster

Banned
Okay, I should rephrase that, IF RFK had run first and come as close as Mccarthy or beat him in new Hampishre he would of stayed in just to get back at him. I also think that if RFK was on the path to nomination he would of flown to chicago and taken it for himself, He almost did it in otl and was only pervented by the prauge spring.
Well perhaps during the presidential race Johnson oversteps his boundaries in trying to win re-election. Maybe he pulls a Nixon and gets embroiled in a watergate-like situation. I don’t know I’m trying to think of ways to weaken Johnson during the election.
 
Well perhaps during the presidential race Johnson oversteps his boundaries in trying to win re-election. Maybe he pulls a Nixon and gets embroiled in a watergate-like situation. I don’t know I’m trying to think of ways to weaken Johnson during the election.
He reveals Nixon's interfering in peace talks tainting Nixon but creating fear of a President who spies on his citizens?
 

Stephens

Banned
Or, even more interesting, what if he survives the June attempt, is surprisingly elected President , and yet goes on to be assassinated during his term? Dodging one bullet but getting hit by another? (By Bremer or Samuel Byck) This would really show some sort of Kennedy curse.
 
How about a McCarthy POD? Say he turns down the offer or acts erratic enough during negotiations to scuttle the idea. No credible figure accepts it either after that. So it’s an RFK write-in campaign (?) in New Hampshire where whatever is the right size result to get LBJ to quit instead of fight RFK over spite takes place. LBJ rationalizes it as RFK not doing it personally, RFK views it as the same signal to enter as New Hampshire IOTL.

It costs so much time for RFK compared to your POD, but I don’t think LBJ would drop out in your scenario and he’d almost certainly win. So RFK gets no more time in this twist vs OTL, but also no McCarthy. I think he takes it.
 

Bomster

Banned
How about a McCarthy POD? Say he turns down the offer or acts erratic enough during negotiations to scuttle the idea. No credible figure accepts it either after that. So it’s an RFK write-in campaign (?) in New Hampshire where whatever is the right size result to get LBJ to quit instead of fight RFK over spite takes place. LBJ rationalizes it as RFK not doing it personally, RFK views it as the same signal to enter as New Hampshire IOTL.

It costs so much time for RFK compared to your POD, but I don’t think LBJ would drop out in your scenario and he’d almost certainly win. So RFK gets no more time in this twist vs OTL, but also no McCarthy. I think he takes it.
I did some research and I’m almost sure that LBJ would have still dropped out of the race even if RFK entered earlier. Although Johnson hated Kennedy’s guts, there was a far more influential factor that would decide whether or not he would run: his declining health. And Johnson had already made up his mind in 1967. He only participated in the early presidential race so that he could push legislation without being seen as a lame duck.
 
I did some research and I’m almost sure that LBJ would have still dropped out of the race even if RFK entered earlier. Although Johnson hated Kennedy’s guts, there was a far more influential factor that would decide whether or not he would run: his declining health. And Johnson had already made up his mind in 1967. He only participated in the early presidential race so that he could push legislation without being seen as a lame duck.
Well.....OTL he was still very much interested. Heck he hatched an entire plot to take back the nomination, If kennedy had any sort of general chance I think LBJ would of gone through with it.
 

Bomster

Banned
Well.....OTL he was still very much interested. Heck he hatched an entire plot to take back the nomination, If kennedy had any sort of general chance I think LBJ would of gone through with it.
Huh, that certainly is interesting. However I've been reading An American Melodrama and it mentions that if Johnson had tried to reign in the nomination aggressively (like he would have in this situation) it could have swayed many into the Kennedy camp. The book mentions that Johnson was losing control of his own party, and this could be one of the many reasons for why he didn't run. Personally I believe his health was the biggest factor, but that article sort of disproves that notion.
 
RFK as a failed 1-term president would be interesting

I guess that would be quite interesting but rather heart breaking too if well done. I fully realize that he was a very flawed person and politician but those last months just, I don't know, gave some extraordinary promise... I suppose it might have been a total grim disaster anyway, like our tl pretty much was in any case.
 
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