Some very cleaver artisan in a mesopotamian city invents a crude verson of what we would call a printing press. Copper moveable type of various cuniform characters, that when pressed into clay, then baked into tablets can create a large number of the same text. How does this change the course of history?
Mesopotamian printing press?
- Thread starter ArKhan
- Start date
At that time, with that alphabet, it wouldn't really be a true press, in my opinion. It would've been great for business and decrees and such though.
I could see that. How many characters would you need for business and laws to be printed?
I think about 400 would be a pretty good start. I don't think its that big of a epiphany to stick some pointy things in a big block that jabs the tablets.
JMO
I could see that. How many characters would you need for business and laws to be printed?
I think about 400 would be a pretty good start. I don't think its that big of a epiphany to stick some pointy things in a big block that jabs the tablets.
JMO
If the new press catches on, perhaps over time the cuneiform would become more simplified, just as some cultures today with non-Latin based alphabets have been forced to adapt the way in which they write/input their scripts for the Digital Age. In any case, this would allow a vastly greater transmission of ideas and knowledge, for with a simpler, standardized script, many individuals could become literate (rather than just scribes and/or the wealthy). It’s not difficult to picture this invention as the springboard of many others and thus the creator of a period of rapid advancement.
Jaded_Railman
Banned
Cuneiform would almost certainly become simpler. The main reason it ended up like it did was because the only way the Sumerians had of writing it was with triangular reed tips. Give them something which isn't shaped like that and it'll adapt to the new medium.
Chinese didn't simplify that much when they invented printing.
Also, perhaps Greece is a more likely place for this invention. The Phaistos Disk is a clay tablet with symbols marked onto it by pre-made stamps. The material of the stamps is unknown- perhaps wood or baked clay. Now all you need is the frame- and you don't need the same amount of pressure for this printing, so that's easier.
The tricky bit is an application. Literacy was very rare, and there was not much people wanted to read- so no equivalent of the Gutenberg Bible. One application I could see would be a merchant wanting to print labels for large numbers of goods- say if you have 100 crates, all of which you want to label "50 Phoenician bronze swords"- and don't want to have to carve a whole new stamp if the contents are axes, or tin, or Cretan, or there are 60 of them. But that wouldn't advance the technology very far.
Maybe not...
Technically, writing on clay can be regarded as a form of printing, and the fact that the Babylonians had special seal-cylinders that could be rolled over a peice of clay to give a seal...
Therefore, the Babylonians did invent printing...
Cuneiform is a very bad system for moveable type print, not because of its shape or complexity of characters, but because it is a mixture of syllabic and ideographic writing. Only CHinese could be worse, really. Of course there is Aramaic which will come in incredibly handy once printing has been invented, but there's no reason why they wouldn't keep printing Akkadian. An interesting side development might be that we see a divide into 'high' writing (heavily ideographic) and 'low' writing (almost entirely syllabic) over time.
The biggewst obstacle to technological breakthrough IMO would be the writing material. Clay has its limits. But if an Aramaic scribe figures out printing on skin, papyrus or fabreic, things could take off dramatically.
The biggewst obstacle to technological breakthrough IMO would be the writing material. Clay has its limits. But if an Aramaic scribe figures out printing on skin, papyrus or fabreic, things could take off dramatically.
Hendryk
Banned
Which goes to show that the complexity of the writing system isn't a factor.
Actually the Phaistos Disk is an example of what happens when a good idea comes too early. Using pre-made stamps to write in clay is only one step removed from the concept of printing proper--but what use could printing have been in Minoan society where literacy was the privilege of a narrow courtly and clerical elite? One should consider whether the same thing may not happen in a Mesopotamian context. For printing to be actually developed, one needs a cultural context in which written information can circulate freely enough, and in which enough people are literate to generate sustained demand for printed works. Those conditions were met in Song China and early Renaissance Europe, but would they have been in Mesopotamia?
Jaded_Railman
Banned
Cuneiform is somewhat too complex a writing system for mass literacy. It takes too much devotion to learn correctly, something most people don't have time for when they're busy working in the irrigation fields. What it needs is a simplification, which is entirely up in the air on if it happens or not. The Sumerians are close enough to the original innovation of writing that maybe someone still remembers the fact and decides to make a do-over. Maybe not, who knows.
I just consider a pictographic kinda alphabet will be improved on. Doing it with letters and paper are quite another thing.
Earlier the better though as far as I'm concerned.
You don't really need to begin with mass literacy - if printing takes off, you can rather end up there. Evolved cuneiform - say Akkadian - is a very complex system, but not really significantly more so than Japanese or Chinese. A movement towards mass literacy might simply lead to a greater use of syllabic writing (that is fairly esasy, I once taught myself the Assyrian syllabary, then realised what else lay in wait and gave up).
Also, we should not make the mistake of taking the prototypical Mesopotamian society - the Middle Babylonian period - as representative of Mesopotamia at all times. In the first millenium BC, urban civilisatrion in the orient underwemnt some very interesting changes, including monetisation and, indeed, a wider spread of literacy. In this atmosphere (our easiest access to its 'feel' are the prophetic books, Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, but there are many sadly inaccessible documents that bear witness to its brisk economic and social pace), printing could take off.
Hello, Think Outside The West Much ...
If Someone in Ancient Sumer had Invented The Printing Press ...
Written History STARTS Sooner, duh!
What do you mean by 'fall'? The Asarcids and Sassanids were still doing pretty well. Neo-Babylonian culture continued to be preserved well into Hellenistic times.
Of course, an invention of printing in Mesopotamia is far more interesting before than after Alexander. Once the Hellenistic era starts, it just becomes Greekwank.
Written history started around 4000 BCE, about 1000 to 1500 years before these civilizations began. Oh, and the Fertile Cresent is the 'West'.Hello, Think Outside The West Much ...
If Someone in Ancient Sumer had Invented The Printing Press ...
Written History STARTS Sooner, duh!
The Arcadians destroyed and absorbed Sumner, then the Babylonians did the same to the Arcadians. Finally, the Pursians conquered the Babylonians. 'Neo-Babylonian culture' at that time would have been a provence of the Pursian Empire. Also, I doubt that something as complex and metal-intensive as a printing press would survive the sacking of a city-state. Copper was used as a form of money at that time.