Menshevik Russia

WI instead of the Bolshevik Russia of OTL, the Russian revolution of 1917 leads to a menshevik ruled russia?
 

wormyguy

Banned
It did, didn't it?

Touche.

Now, if ASBs make the Mensheviks win the Russian Civil War (and seriously, they need ASBs), then: Lots of hungry neighbors take bites out of Russia, either annexing the land or setting up puppet states. Russia is even weaker than in OTL 1997, and Communism is butterflied away. Naziism is butterflied away with it, and possibly even Fascism. Even Socialism might not have much appeal, considering how it is implemented in Russia.

So, basically Russia anti-wank.
 

Germaniac

Donor
Germany will dominate eastern Europe even if they do not win the war. With 20 years or so, without Soviet Russia, most regions will fall under German influence. Nationalists will still take power in Germany, and a mittle europa will come into effect without the need for a Soviet war. Germany by the 40's will be much more powerful and will win a war with france, Britain really has no need to fight but similar to OTL if they do.

Germany and Britain become the dominant power in europe once again and both begin pumping huge amount of money into Russia to get another powerful ally. who knows maybe a mini Cold War between Nationalist Germany and Great Britain in Russia
 
Actually if anything I think no Soviet Union would strengthen the left elsewhere, at least in Western democracies. Beyond a Paris Commune style 'blaze of glory' failure that will impassion socialists of all hues without the details of realpolitik afterwards, there's no major basis for Red Meanace paranoia on the right (things like the 1924 Zinoviev Letter that brought down the Labour govt.). Also the socialists wont suffer the permanent splits of the early 1920s between moderates and radicals, while those would-be Communists will be far less uniform and mere puppets of a foriegn power, which certainly put plenty of people off.

Despite all that, I also can't see a defeated 1917 Revolution butterfly the appearance of Fascism or even Nazism for that matter (well at least the German Worker's Party and its ilk). Fascism's routes go back into the 19th century, Darwinism, syndicalism, national-liberalism, social conservatism, political Catholicism etc. the idea of combining social radicalism with traditional powerbases wasn't simply a reaction to the Bolsheviks, afterall the pro/anti-war split in most European socialist parties came in 1914 and Italy's savaged peace again had little to do with Moscow, and both were crucial to literal nationalist socialism that formed the basis for Fascism and fellow-travellers.

That said, how well these movements fare is greatly changed by no USSR of any form, but do remember the main target of Fascist movements was anarchic, cosmopolitan, decadent democracies. The lows of the 1920s will certainly be good breeding ground for such ideas, afterall no USSR doesn't stop homegrown socialists from being percieved as a threat to society.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
The Mensheviks had not enough support, nor power for a revolution. Their best shot would be if the October revolution is butterflied away and Russia goes democratic. Then they have a chance to become the dominant party in Russian politics, but would still lack the power and influence they'd need to establish a dictatorship.

And as in all non- communist timelines, fascism depended on the red scare. Fascism as we know it would not exist, but very similar movements would probably have appeared, extreme nationalism was nothing new.
 
Menshevism was only a powerful force in the Caucasus, where it had been amalgamated with Nationalist forces. Otherwise, by the time of the October Revolution, the Mensheviks were in an alliance with the Socialist-Revolutionaries and left-leaning Kadets. The SRs didn't have a talented leadership or a solid ideology, but they were extremely popular and had the support of almost all of the peasants, so they went to the Mensheviks for an inspiring leadership and an expansive political platform. The Kadets went in on the alliance too, sealing the cracks with a little bit of their leadership and their rank-and-file.

So, how do you get these forces to take over Russia? You've gotta get rid of the Bolsheviks, somehow, the only ones who wanted to end the war as soon as possible, and who were willing to use violent means to an end. The Menshevik-SR-Kadet alliance, as huge as it was, was indecisive, and had there been no October Revolution, its probable Lenin would have led another putsch and another and another until he got his way.

Perhaps there is no October Revolution, or it fails, or whatever. The elections to the 1917 Constituent Assembly would have happened anyway, it was being planned and prepared for by the Provisional Government. Victor Chernov of the SRs becomes Chairman after an SR curbstomp. But he doesn't end the war soon enough. Come February, the Germans start marching through the Ukraine and the Baltics, sending soldiers retreating back into the Russian heartland to regroup with workers. Does Chernov surrender? If he doesn't, there will be another putsch initiated by Lenin, and this time it'll work. And the Mensheviks still haven't risen to power.

It just looks very difficult for the Mensheviks to take power. They weren't the type, and they weren't popular. You've got to go further back.
 
You need to keep the army in the fight, and the army was disintegrating.

Brest-Litovsk-like settlement will end in civil war and probably Bolshevik victory.
 
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