Menorca as a Russian possession in the 18th century?

So I have read before* that the British considered transferring Menorca (which they took in the War of the Spanish Succession) to the Russians. If this happened, would Russia be able to hold onto it and use it as a naval base in the long run? Or was it too far away without access through the Dardanelles?

*It was in Marx's Secret Diplomatic History of the 18th Century, which is mostly about the British being irrationally pro-Russian in the 1700s. So I don't know how plausible it actually was.
 
Wouldn't they need to control the Straits if they were going to resupply the Menorca garrison? It seems unusual for Russia to have control of an island thats not even close to say either the Baltic or Black Sea.
 
Wouldn't they need to control the Straits if they were going to resupply the Menorca garrison? It seems unusual for Russia to have control of an island thats not even close to say either the Baltic or Black Sea.

Before the Battle of Çeşme (1770) the Russians sailed all the way from the Baltics afterwards they had the Crimea. During the Napoleonic war and Russo-Turkish war (1806-1812) they used Corfu. There is no need for the Straits al though it would make it easy. With the Straits there would not even be a need for Menorca.
 
Menorca going to Russia seems pretty implausible. It's just so far from the Russian ports that resupplying it would be a major pain, and any attack on it could take a long time to be responded to.
 
Yeah, I guess that though I could imagine the British wanting to sell/transfer it to Russia I'm not sure why Russia would really want the place (except for the prestige of having an outpost in the Mediterranean).

If some faction in the Russian court wanted to get involved in Mediterranean shipping it could be useful.
 
Menorca going to Russia seems pretty implausible. It's just so far from the Russian ports that resupplying it would be a major pain, and any attack on it could take a long time to be responded to.
Is it realistic that the British hand over Menorca to Russia, and then they recognise it as the millstone around their neck that it is, and quickly transfer it again to another power?
 
Is it realistic that the British hand over Menorca to Russia, and then they recognise it as the millstone around their neck that it is, and quickly transfer it again to another power?

I would like to see the original source for the claim as it seems to me completely implausible. The British freaked out about the projection of Russian power into Holstein after Peter III became Tsar, as they were getting far too close to Western Europe. I can't imagine what they'd think about them having a strategic naval base in the Western Med.
 
So I have read before* that the British considered transferring Menorca (which they took in the War of the Spanish Succession) to the Russians. If this happened, would Russia be able to hold onto it and use it as a naval base in the long run? Or was it too far away without access through the Dardanelles?

*It was in Marx's Secret Diplomatic History of the 18th Century, which is mostly about the British being irrationally pro-Russian in the 1700s. So I don't know how plausible it actually was.

Do you mind quoting the deeper segment? The British were at war with the Russians in the mid-1700s, were patronisingly arrogant in alliance negotiations after that, and then hostile during the League of Armed Neutraliy after that.
 
Do you mind quoting the deeper segment? The British were at war with the Russians in the mid-1700s, were patronisingly arrogant in alliance negotiations after that, and then hostile during the League of Armed Neutraliy after that.

For sure. Here's the Project Gutenberg link to the book: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/32370/32370-h/32370-h.htm

And here's the relevant passage, a quote from a letter from the British ambassador to Russia in 1782. The British were trying to get Russian mediation to negotiate a peace in the American Revolution, and offering Minorca to sweeten the deal apparently:

"I suggested the idea of giving up Minorca to the Empress, because, as it was evident to me we should at the peace be compelled to make sacrifices, it seemed to me wiser to make them to our friends than to our enemies. The idea was adopted at home in its whole extent, and nothing could be more perfectly calculated to the meridian of this Court than the judicious instructions I received on this occasion from Lord Stormont. Why this project failed I am still at a loss to learn. I never knew the Empress incline so strongly to any one measure as she did to this, before I had my full powers to treat, nor was I ever more astonished than when I found her shrink from her purpose when they arrived. I imputed it at the same time, in my own mind, to the rooted aversion she had for our Ministry, and her total want of confidence in them; but I since am more strongly disposed to believe that she consulted the Emperor (of Austria) on the subject, and that he not only prevailed on her to decline the offer, but betrayed the secret to France, and that it thus became public. I cannot otherwise account for this rapid change of sentiment in the Empress, particularly as Prince Potemkin (whatever he might be in other transactions) was certainly in this cordial and sincere in his support, and both from what I saw at the time, and from what has since come to my knowledge, had its success at heart as much as myself. You will observe, my lord, that the idea of bringing the Empress forward as a friendly mediatrix went hand-in-hand with the proposed cession of Minorca."

There's a footnote with more details here:

(13) "It is then a fact that the English Government, not satisfied with having made Russia a Baltic power, strove hard to make her a Mediterranean power too. The offer of the surrender of Minorca appears to have been made to Catherine II. at the end of 1779, or the beginning of 1780, shortly after Lord Stormont's entrance into the North Cabinet—the same Lord Stormont we have seen thwarting the French attempts at resistance against Russia, and whom even Sir James Harris cannot deny the merit of having written "instructions perfectly calculated to the meridian of the Court of St. Petersburg." While Lord North's Cabinet, at the suggestion of Sir James Harris, offered Minorca to the Muscovites, the English Commoners and people were still trembling for fear lest the Hanoverians (?) should wrest out of their hands "one of the keys of the Mediterranean." On the 26th of October, 1775, the King, in his opening speech, had informed Parliament, amongst other things, that he had Sir James Graham's own words, when asked why they should not have kept up some blockade pending the settlement of the "plan," "They did not take that responsibility upon themselves." The responsibility of executing their orders! The despatch we have quoted is the only despatch read, except one of a later date. The despatch, said to be sent on the 5th of April, in which "the Admiral is ordered to use the largest discretionary power in blockading the Russian ports in the Black Sea," is not read, nor any replies from Admiral Dundas. The Admiralty sent Hanoverian troops to Gibraltar and Port Mahon (Minorca), to replace such British regiments as should be drawn from those garrisons for service in America. An amendment to the address was proposed by Lord John Cavendish, strongly condemning "the confiding such important fortresses as Gibraltar and Port Mahon to foreigners." After very stormy debates, in which the measure of entrusting Gibraltar and Minorca, "the keys of the Mediterranean," as they were called, to foreigners, was furiously attacked; Lord North, acknowledging himself the adviser of the measure, felt obliged to bring in a bill of indemnity. However, these foreigners, these Hanoverians, were the English King's own subjects. Having virtually surrendered Minorca to Russia in 1780, Lord North was, of course, quite justified in treating, on November 22, 1781, in the House of Commons, 'with utter scorn the insinuation that Ministers were in the pay of France.'"


So the date of the transfer would be later than I initially was thinking (it had been a while since I read this) - IMO that makes it more plausible that Russia could project power out to the Balearics.
 
The idea of giving up posessions that you'd worried you'd lose in the peace to your allies so when your enemies try to claim them you can go 'minorca, gilbraltar, dunno what you're talking about mate, they're russian' is fucking brilliant.

Lord North should have taken it even further and sold Florida to the cherokee.
 
Even if they acquired it, how would they keep it ? It's far from the main Russian naval bases in the Black Sea, and it's surrounded by a lot of local rival powers. Spain, France, the Italian states (or united Italy). Portugal and the UK are not that far from Menorca either.

And I doubt the locals wouldn't try to have a say about becoming Russian subjects.
 
Even if they acquired it, how would they keep it ? It's far from the main Russian naval bases in the Black Sea, and it's surrounded by a lot of local rival powers. Spain, France, the Italian states (or united Italy). Portugal and the UK are not that far from Menorca either.

And I doubt the locals wouldn't try to have a say about becoming Russian subjects.

Yeah, you are likely right that Russia couldn't keep it forever. They would probably lose it to Spain in the Napoleonic Wars, during the period when Spain was aligned with France and Russia was in the Coalition. Then when the Napoleonic Wars end with a *Congress of Vienna, the island is probably given back to Spain. The Russian possession of Menorca for 20 years or so is an obscure piece of historical trivia, and maybe there's some small cultural influence on the island, the locals brew kvass as an alternative to beer during Lent or something like that.

OTOH, if the Royal Navy and what elements of the Russian Navy can get there hold out against the Franco-Spanish until Spain and Russia have a falling-out, Russia could hold it through the Napoleonic Wars IMO. Maybe after that they lose it in a Crimean War type situation... but just because a neighboring power could sieze the island doesn't mean they will. I mean, Portugal held on to East Timor for a long time despite the Dutch being easily able to snatch it away.

If they're still holding it in 1917 and the Russian Revolution happens (if it's not butterflied away) I imagine the Soviets wouldn't get to keep Menorca then. But by then Russia could have used it as a base in the Scramble for Africa... Russian Western Sahara? :p

I imagine the Russians would govern with a fairly light touch at least at first. I doubt they'd try to convert the locals to Orthodoxy or anything like that. It's really far away and mostly useful as an anchorage. IFAIK the locals were OK with being British subjects, I could be wrong but I have never heard of a Menorcan revolt against British rule.
 
Minorca was taken by the French. Twice. At a time when the British Royal Navy was top of the game. How could the Russians hope to hold it ?
 
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