Megafauna working group

Screvier20 · Oct 26, 2011

My choices
Long-legged Peccary (Domesticated)
Harringtongs Mountain goat (Domesticated)
Smilodon populator
Dire Wolves
Wooly Mammoth
Tapir
Macrauchenia
Miracinonyx trumanii (American Cheetah)
Large-headed Llama (Domesticated)
American Lion
Stag-Moose
Flat-Headed Peccary

It would also be nice to keep a number of species pronghorns. I just guess which species of peccary that is domesticated.

Here's something that may help http://www.megafauna.com/

PhilippeO · Oct 27, 2011

Vote for 12

large headed llama (domesticated)
Harlan's muskox (domesticated)
mastodon (tamed)
camelops
tapir (Astrapotherium magnum)
Giant Peccary(p.maximus)
woolly mammoth
glyptodont (Doedicurus clavicaudatus)
saber-toothed cat (smilodon)
cheetah (Miracinonyx trumani)
short-faced bear
teratorn (Kelenken guillermoi)

Shawn Endresen · Oct 27, 2011

Hm. I wonder what the odds of the cheetah being domesticable are? Supposedly the African ones can be.

yourworstnightmare · Oct 27, 2011

For domestication. Camels and horses would be prime candidates, since they were domesticated in the old world. With domesticated camels we could see Trade Caravans through the deserts?

Domoviye · Oct 27, 2011

Shawn Endresen said:
Hm. I wonder what the odds of the cheetah being domesticable are? Supposedly the African ones can be.

The African ones can be tamed only. Breeding them is almost impossible in captivity since they need several hundred square kilometers to begin mating. However if we decide to have the North American cheetah we must make it a domestic breed.

Sven · Oct 27, 2011

Hi, Philippe.

Welcome to the group!

PhilippeO said:
Vote for 12

large headed llama (domesticated)
Harlan's muskox (domesticated)
mastodon (tamed)
camelops
tapir (Astrapotherium magnum)
Giant Peccary(p.maximus)
woolly mammoth
glyptodont (Doedicurus clavicaudatus)
saber-toothed cat (smilodon)
cheetah (Miracinonyx trumani)
short-faced bear
teratorn (Kelenken guillermoi)

One problem: Kelenken guillermoi is a terror bird. Teratorns were giant scavenger/predator birds related to condors and vultures (like this). Kelenken also lived in the Miocene, which is beyond the range we've been considering.

yourworstnightmare · Oct 27, 2011

Sven said:
One problem: Kelenken guillermoi is a terror bird. Teratorns were giant scavenger/predator birds related to condors and vultures (like this). Kelenken also lived in the Miocene, which is beyond the range we've been considering.

The last Terror Birds dies 2 Million years ago. So they were extinct long before the Ice Age ended. So we can easily eliminate them from the list. (I love Terror Birds, and I hate that that shitty movie makes people think they were in contact with humans).

Sven · Oct 27, 2011

yourworstnightmare said:
For domestication. Camels and horses would be prime candidates, since they were domesticated in the old world. With domesticated camels we could see Trade Caravans through the deserts?

Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed that the camel hasn't fared very well in the voting so far. I think that was our best chance to compete with the horse and prevent a horse takeover of the New World. But, I suppose there's also the large-headed llama, which is doing well at the polls, and could probably also be a competitor for the horse. I guess we'll wait and see.

Domoviye · Oct 27, 2011

Sven said:
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed that the camel hasn't fared very well in the voting so far. I think that was our best chance to compete with the horse and prevent a horse takeover of the New World. But, I suppose there's also the large-headed llama, which is doing well at the polls, and could probably also be a competitor for the horse. I guess we'll wait and see.

I was thinking of supporting the camel, but thought they were too much like OTL. The llama is an interesting animal only found in the America's so its more special. And it was widespread enough that there could be several different breeds to fit the different terrain rather than being as limited as camels.
I think it would be interesting having an entire continent that basically relied on chariots and wagons, possibly with some elite llama riding cavalry.

yourworstnightmare · Oct 27, 2011

I vote for horse and camel right now, since these are animals we actually know can be domesticated. And they'd actually help a lot.

Horses would be especially useful if some kind of nomadic herder civilizations are formed. And I already mentioned what camels could mean for desert trade. In my opinion horses and camels are no-brainers.

Sven · Oct 27, 2011

Domoviye said:
I was thinking of supporting the camel, but thought they were too much like OTL. The llama is an interesting animal only found in the America's so its more special. And it was widespread enough that there could be several different breeds to fit the different terrain rather than being as limited as camels.
I think it would be interesting having an entire continent that basically relied on chariots and wagons, possibly with some elite llama riding cavalry.

Getting outvoted is a normal part of collaboration: I'll do my best to be mature about it, but I offer no guarantees.

Even so, I don't think lobbying for favorites is inappropriate at this point: everybody should be doing it, because I want this timeline to meet everybody's interests as well as possible.

Also, Google "riding llama": I was surprised by the number of pictures available for this, since I thought llamas didn't permit people to ride them.

Domoviye · Oct 27, 2011

Sven said:
Getting outvoted is a normal part of collaboration: I'll do my best to be mature about it, but I offer no guarantees.

Even so, I don't think lobbying for favorites is inappropriate at this point: everybody should be doing it, because I want this timeline to meet everybody's interests as well as possible.

Also, Google "riding llama": I was surprised by the number of pictures available for this, since I thought llamas didn't permit people to ride them.

Its generally possible to sit on a llama for a short time, but usually they stay still or only move a few feet. Most are too small and don't have the stamina for it.
Now if the llama is voted off I'm going into my mad monkey mode. You DON'T want to see that.

stewacide · Oct 27, 2011

Kalvan said:
Frankly, I would keep Lions in North America, and have Sabertooths in South America. That way, Latin America can have an "El Tigre" that won't be laughed at by Spaniards who have been to the Phillipines, and an "El Leon" that won't be laughed at by Spaniards who have been to Africa.

The spaniards laughed at cougars and jaguars? Brave bunch!!!

p.s. A big jaguar can be +350 lbs, and cougar +250. Either can easily kill a man.

twovultures · Oct 27, 2011

Kalvan said:
Frankly, I would keep Lions in North America, and have Sabertooths in South America. That way, Latin America can have an "El Tigre" that won't be laughed at by Spaniards who have been to the Phillipines, and an "El Leon" that won't be laughed at by Spaniards who have been to Africa.

I don't know about keeping the American lion, but I think putting sabertooths in South America is a very good idea.

Basically, if we have non-domesticable Macrauchenia waltzing around the Chaco and Patagonia, they could serve as a source of food for saber tooths. The Chaco and Patagonia are somewhat wild places with relatively few people-even to this day. This means that, with a ready food supply and ample room, there could be sabertooths alive ITTL well into the 21st century even with OTL's population growth and industrialization.

Imagine going on safari to see saber-tooths...that would be cool

Screvier20 · Oct 27, 2011

Domoviye said:
The African ones can be tamed only. Breeding them is almost impossible in captivity since they need several hundred square kilometers to begin mating. However if we decide to have the North American cheetah we must make it a domestic breed.

Maybe the American Cheetah would breed easier because it is more closely related to mountain lion than it is to African/Asian Cheetah.

Shawn Endresen · Oct 27, 2011

yourworstnightmare said:
I vote for horse and camel right now, since these are animals we actually know can be domesticated. And they'd actually help a lot.

Horses would be especially useful if some kind of nomadic herder civilizations are formed. And I already mentioned what camels could mean for desert trade. In my opinion horses and camels are no-brainers.

Well, your vote moved camel into #12, making it a keeper

have you any votes for the other 10 possibilities? (If you voted for teratorn or pampathere that would put the camel back in doubt; since you seem interested in strategic voting, seems only fair to say)

yourworstnightmare · Oct 27, 2011

Shawn Endresen said:
Well, your vote moved camel into #12, making it a keeper have you any votes for the other 10 possibilities? (If you voted for teratorn or pampathere that would put the camel back in doubt; since you seem interested in strategic voting, seems only fair to say)

Ok, so my top 12:

1. Horse
2. Camel
3. Saber Tooth (South America, although I understand the climate change was really bad in the south)
4. Scimitar Tooth (North America)
5. Llamas in North America
6. Dire Wolf
7. Saiga (Alaska and Canada)
8. Woolly Mammoth
9. Mastodon Cavalry

10. Stag Moose
11. Giant Peccary
12. Muskox

stewacide · Oct 27, 2011

yourworstnightmare said:
Ok, so my top 12:
7. Saiga (Alaska and Canada)

Had to google what that was. No idea such an animal existed, let alone was still around!

This is as alien looking an animal as I've ever seen: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Saiga.jpg

Sven · Oct 27, 2011

stewacide said:
Had to google what that was. No idea such an animal existed, let alone was still around!

This is as alien looking an animal as I've ever seen: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Saiga.jpg

The saiga is currently out of the rankings, but, if it makes the short list, we'd have three animals (aside from the elephants) that evolved short trunks separately, because both the macrauchenia and the tapir are currently on the short list.

Sven · Oct 27, 2011

twovultures said:
I don't know about keeping the American lion, but I think putting sabertooths in South America is a very good idea.

Basically, if we have non-domesticable Macrauchenia waltzing around the Chaco and Patagonia, they could serve as a source of food for saber tooths. The Chaco and Patagonia are somewhat wild places with relatively few people-even to this day. This means that, with a ready food supply and ample room, there could be sabertooths alive ITTL well into the 21st century even with OTL's population growth and industrialization.

Imagine going on safari to see saber-tooths...that would be cool

See, I like the sabertooth being in Canada as predators of the mammoths and mastodons, though I wouldn't be opposed to keeping two dysjunct populations (or even species, with S. fatalis isolated in Canada and S. populator isolated in Patagonia).