Well, I suppose it depends on how open and how brutal the Nazi's want to be. Or rather how comfortable they are in their position. Large waves of Jewish Emigration from Germany occurred in 1933, when Hitler took power, and in 1938 and 1939, after Kristallnacht and Jewish Pogroms began in earnest. In between these though, emigration remained fairly steady. Partially because there was no where for them to go. Most countries would not allow large numbers of Jews to immigrate and the US, which was a popular destination, was limiting all immigration in this period. Most Jews that did leave did not go to Palestine (where the British started controlling Jewish immigration numbers in the 30's anyway) but to neighboring countries.@ArtosStark how much do you think it would take to be Jewish-free in your opinion?
Hebrew was already pretty established in Palestinian Jews in the 30's and not near as common among German Jews as you might think. German Jews spoke German, at least as often as not.Yiddish was becoming the norm.
Lord Khuzdul @Aloha @Derek Jackson @naraic @Alanith 👆🏻@The Anglo-Dutch Union @Boneheaded_Bookkeeper @thekingsguard @Blobfish @lukedalton I think I am going to retcon one country and add one more to the list, let me know what you think about it so far (both what I have written so far and the retcon) and don't hesitate to correct my grammatical errors, which are many!
Well, I suppose it depends on how open and how brutal the Nazi's want to be. Or rather how comfortable they are in their position. Large waves of Jewish Emigration from Germany occurred in 1933, when Hitler took power, and in 1938 and 1939, after Kristallnacht and Jewish Pogroms began in earnest. In between these though, emigration remained fairly steady. Partially because there was no where for them to go. Most countries would not allow large numbers of Jews to immigrate and the US, which was a popular destination, was limiting all immigration in this period. Most Jews that did leave did not go to Palestine (where the British started controlling Jewish immigration numbers in the 30's anyway) but to neighboring countries.
Basically, if you are the Nazi's, you are in a bit of a conundrum. You want all the Jews out of your country. But your hold on power is not absolute, so you do have to keep from rocking the boat too much. And simply expelling them, or getting too harsh on them too early will cause more backlash in your own country and your neighbors (who don't want all these Jews fleeing to their countries either). You also want (and due to your crazy economic practices, increasingly need) to take all of their wealth from them when they leave. But that discourages them from going, until you ratchet up the attacks, which causes the aforementioned problems. So really they could only have gone much faster if they had been secure and comfortable enough earlier to crack down earlier or you need a much more attractive alternative to be open to you. A Jewish Mandate would be slightly more attractive than Palestine IOTL but even at its greatest extent in this period (1935) Jewish immigration to Palestine only hit 61,000 people and was generally much less. To empty out all German Jews to Palestine by 1938 you would need at least 100,000 per year, just from Germany. If you want it sooner you would need more and the Nazi's only came to power in 1933. And if most of those emigrants are moving to countries surrounding Germany you will just have to deal with them later when you invade those countries.
Hebrew was already pretty established in Palestinian Jews in the 30's and not near as common among German Jews as you might think. German Jews spoke German, at least as often as not.
Well, I suppose it depends on how open and how brutal the Nazi's want to be. Or rather how comfortable they are in their position. Large waves of Jewish Emigration from Germany occurred in 1933, when Hitler took power, and in 1938 and 1939, after Kristallnacht and Jewish Pogroms began in earnest. In between these though, emigration remained fairly steady. Partially because there was no where for them to go. Most countries would not allow large numbers of Jews to immigrate and the US, which was a popular destination, was limiting all immigration in this period. Most Jews that did leave did not go to Palestine (where the British started controlling Jewish immigration numbers in the 30's anyway) but to neighboring countries.
Basically, if you are the Nazi's, you are in a bit of a conundrum. You want all the Jews out of your country. But your hold on power is not absolute, so you do have to keep from rocking the boat too much. And simply expelling them, or getting too harsh on them too early will cause more backlash in your own country and your neighbors (who don't want all these Jews fleeing to their countries either). You also want (and due to your crazy economic practices, increasingly need) to take all of their wealth from them when they leave. But that discourages them from going, until you ratchet up the attacks, which causes the aforementioned problems. So really they could only have gone much faster if they had been secure and comfortable enough earlier to crack down earlier or you need a much more attractive alternative to be open to you. A Jewish Mandate would be slightly more attractive than Palestine IOTL but even at its greatest extent in this period (1935) Jewish immigration to Palestine only hit 61,000 people and was generally much less. To empty out all German Jews to Palestine by 1938 you would need at least 100,000 per year, just from Germany. If you want it sooner you would need more and the Nazi's only came to power in 1933. And if most of those emigrants are moving to countries surrounding Germany you will just have to deal with them later when you invade those countries.
Hebrew was already pretty established in Palestinian Jews in the 30's and not near as common among German Jews as you might think. German Jews spoke German, at least as often as not.
Well, I suppose it depends on how open and how brutal the Nazi's want to be. Or rather how comfortable they are in their position. Large waves of Jewish Emigration from Germany occurred in 1933, when Hitler took power, and in 1938 and 1939, after Kristallnacht and Jewish Pogroms began in earnest. In between these though, emigration remained fairly steady. Partially because there was no where for them to go. Most countries would not allow large numbers of Jews to immigrate and the US, which was a popular destination, was limiting all immigration in this period. Most Jews that did leave did not go to Palestine (where the British started controlling Jewish immigration numbers in the 30's anyway) but to neighboring countries.
Basically, if you are the Nazi's, you are in a bit of a conundrum. You want all the Jews out of your country. But your hold on power is not absolute, so you do have to keep from rocking the boat too much. And simply expelling them, or getting too harsh on them too early will cause more backlash in your own country and your neighbors (who don't want all these Jews fleeing to their countries either). You also want (and due to your crazy economic practices, increasingly need) to take all of their wealth from them when they leave. But that discourages them from going, until you ratchet up the attacks, which causes the aforementioned problems. So really they could only have gone much faster if they had been secure and comfortable enough earlier to crack down earlier or you need a much more attractive alternative to be open to you. A Jewish Mandate would be slightly more attractive than Palestine IOTL but even at its greatest extent in this period (1935) Jewish immigration to Palestine only hit 61,000 people and was generally much less. To empty out all German Jews to Palestine by 1938 you would need at least 100,000 per year, just from Germany. If you want it sooner you would need more and the Nazi's only came to power in 1933. And if most of those emigrants are moving to countries surrounding Germany you will just have to deal with them later when you invade those countries.
Hebrew was already pretty established in Palestinian Jews in the 30's and not near as common among German Jews as you might think. German Jews spoke German, at least as often as not.
I am not even sure. Handwaving most of what is actually in their best interests, I suppose a Britain that really wanted a strong Jewish State in Palestine? If there is an agreed population transfer subsidized, supported and furnished by the British, and generally against the German Jews will, that might do it. It would be a bit insane of Britain to contemplate this at this time, on many levels, but it would get the numbers there. Even the British keeping the controls off of Jewish immigration into Palestine would increase the amount but that probably won't get the numbers you are looking for.Ok, so what would have to happen to get everything done so we have a human tsunami of people reaching this Mandate?
Well, I suppose it depends on how open and how brutal the Nazi's want to be. Or rather how comfortable they are in their position. Large waves of Jewish Emigration from Germany occurred in 1933, when Hitler took power, and in 1938 and 1939, after Kristallnacht and Jewish Pogroms began in earnest. In between these though, emigration remained fairly steady. Partially because there was no where for them to go. Most countries would not allow large numbers of Jews to immigrate and the US, which was a popular destination, was limiting all immigration in this period. Most Jews that did leave did not go to Palestine (where the British started controlling Jewish immigration numbers in the 30's anyway) but to neighboring countries.
Basically, if you are the Nazi's, you are in a bit of a conundrum. You want all the Jews out of your country. But your hold on power is not absolute, so you do have to keep from rocking the boat too much. And simply expelling them, or getting too harsh on them too early will cause more backlash in your own country and your neighbors (who don't want all these Jews fleeing to their countries either). You also want (and due to your crazy economic practices, increasingly need) to take all of their wealth from them when they leave. But that discourages them from going, until you ratchet up the attacks, which causes the aforementioned problems. So really they could only have gone much faster if they had been secure and comfortable enough earlier to crack down earlier or you need a much more attractive alternative to be open to you. A Jewish Mandate would be slightly more attractive than Palestine IOTL but even at its greatest extent in this period (1935) Jewish immigration to Palestine only hit 61,000 people and was generally much less. To empty out all German Jews to Palestine by 1938 you would need at least 100,000 per year, just from Germany. If you want it sooner you would need more and the Nazi's only came to power in 1933. And if most of those emigrants are moving to countries surrounding Germany you will just have to deal with them later when you invade those countries.
Hebrew was already pretty established in Palestinian Jews in the 30's and not near as common among German Jews as you might think. German Jews spoke German, at least as often as not.
I should qualify all this by saying that there are best selling Historical novels with movie deals that are chock full of historical holes. There is sometimes a place for stating something has happened and dealing with the fallout, and ignoring that it is unlikely to have happened in the first place.
What I mean is that you do not have to fix every nitpick I make. There is room for some suspension of disbelief, even here.Wait sorry I don't follow.
If you have large numbers of German and East European Jews and they still only form 10% of the total population you are going to need a lot of people coming from elsewhere as well.@ArtosStark also, I think my scenario this mandate (and future independent Israel) might actually be even more Mizhraim and Sephardic than OTL.
I am not good with numbers, but I would say an Ashkenazi elite (not above 9/10%) and the rest the two groups I mentioned above.
What I mean is that you do not have to fix every nitpick I make. There is room for some suspension of disbelief, even here.
If you have large numbers of German and East European Jews and they still only form 10% of the total population you are going to need a lot of people coming from elsewhere as well.
So in my version of operation long jump, there is one important survivor which is Winston Churchill. Also Stalin being more paranoid brings more of his Entourage with him in Tehran resulting in an interesting development in the future.
Hitler's generals weren't happy with the fact the Soviet Union wasn't collapsing as Adolf had said. In fact they had more troubles than originally anticipated because of the "terroristic" Garda de Fier in the RK Bukarest, RK Ostland was just less tense than former RK Bukarest, the General Gouverneurment had to deal continuously with the Armia Krajowa and they were constantly short of equipment, presumably because the Fuhrer was helping Germany's "historical" ally who had barely reached Mosul and was getting his bottom kicked repeatedly by Jews, British Arabs and the descendants of those who had survived the Turco-German collaboration of extermination (and attempted cover up) in the previous war.
The Third Reich had to actually reinforce the Turkish Army constantly, because entering Armenia wasn't that easy as much as they could have predicted or being told. Alparslan Türkeş, the Önder of Turkey, was more busy with propaganda and shouting orders than actually administering the troops, who were more concerned with the co-occupation of Greece and the Greeks wanted nothing to do with either them or Italians, in fact there many instances of infighting between the Duce's troops and the "Grey Wolf" of Anatolia, with situations practically identical to the Independent State of Croatia, where the Italians defended the local Serb population from the heinous Ustashe*, in this case the Serbs replaced the Greeks, with the local resistance being particularly brutal against Turkish soldiers when captured.
Operation Hydra
Despite what Goring had said, the Royal Air Force did manage to hit Germany from time to time. Winston Churchill, with morale low at the home front wanted something to show the masses despite knews of the Baltic-Volhynian offensive or the Soviet Armenian riflemen and cavalry repulsing the Turco-German tanks.
He needed, and badly, something the British could do.
The proposal seemed to be insane but it might have worked because probably the German War machine thought those were leading the British Empire were rational, but Churchill's sanity was already dwindling from the pyrrhic retreat of Dunkirk, so their assumption was entirely wrong, but the plan dragged on the drawing board for months. With some assistance from the USAF, Operation Hydra started, for weeks they prepared their own "German" bombers.
It was simple, "sneaking" them and hit as close as to the Fuhrer as possible. Their luck would proove decisive, the bombers had hit various parts of Berlin and also hit a very important building, with many Nazi VIPs in it. They had to wait a bit for celebrations, as it took a week before NSDAP would acknowledge it had happened. The German obituaries reported the dead
The immediate aftermath was the sacking of Herman Goring from his position and further financing of the jet prototypes. Hitler's only consolation was his ally Japan had done the same against Britain and the USA, both Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-Shek were dead, in hindsight it is known two years later it would proove it bettered the Chinese battlefields, with a single united front and command structure which would make the American landings in Manchuria and Korea.***
- SS-Obergruppenführer (Lieutenant-General) Reinhard Heydrich
- SS-Gruppenführer (Major-General) Otto Hofmann
- SS-Oberführer (Senior Colonel) Dr. Karl Eberhard Schöngarth
- SS-Oberführer (Senior Colonel) Dr. Gerhard Klopfer
- SS-Obersturmbannführer (Lieutenant Colonel) Adolf Eichmann
- SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) Dr. Rudolf Lange
- Dr. Georg Leibbrandt
- Dr. Alfred Meyer
- Dr. Josef Bühler
- Dr. Roland Freisler
- SS-Brigadeführer (Brigadier General) Dr. Wilhelm Stuckart
- SS-Brigadeführer (Brigadier General) Dr. Wilhelm Stuckart
- SS-Oberführer (Senior Colonel) Erich Neumann
- Friedrich Wilhelm Kritzinger
- Martin Luther
Hitler's plans weren't finished, soon after the Wannsee dead were confirmed, the Fuhrer ordered Otto Skorzerny to be done with whatever he was doing and be in Berlin as soon as possible. They had to do something, no matter how insane.
It was this how Operation Long Jump started, just an act of exasperation and after the Cassibile Concordat, it would be even more necessary.
The Italian Turnaround
Italy, despite what the propoganda was saying, wasn't prepared for such war, many thought like the deceased Balbo, that they would end up shining the boots of the Germans.
With the Kingdom in jeopardy thanks to Mussolini ego, the King decided enough was enough and sent an attaché to discuss with the Allies. Initially he thought of Castellano, but he didn't know any English, so they sent someone else, his name still unknown to its day.
The attache traveled to still neutral Spain by plane and met with British-American diplomats and generals.
It was agreed Italy could keep its Terra Irridenta (but not the colonies of course) on the condition it immediately joined the war effort against the Axis, give what little weapons and assistance they could to the Resistance Movements such as the Chetniks, Tito's Partisans, Anti-Fascist Underground Patriotic Organization, Francs-Tireurs et Partisans Français and Garda de Fier.
The attaché replied positively , however noting the Regio Esercito couldn't possibly help everyone, but still asking in return to do their best to bring back home their soldiers outside of Festung Europa.
The Allies ' delegation said they would have tried the best they could,but with Stalin one could only have a slimmer of hope.
Some time after, the Badoglio Declaration was announced on:
The Italian government, recognising the impossibility of continuing the unequal struggle against an overwhelming enemy force, in order to avoid further and graver disasters for the Nation, sought an armistice from general Eisenhower, commander-in-chief of the Anglo-American Allied forces. The request was granted. Consequently, all acts of hostility against the Anglo-American force by Italian forces must cease and aid the Allied effort as quickly and efficiently possible, those who can, join the Americans, the British and the Soviets immediately.The few nations which weren't under occupation were Portugal, Spain and Bulgaria. The first two were afraid of Hitler doing a Napoleonic style invasion of their peninsula and the third was completely surrounded, to the North there was the Reichskommissariat Bukarest, to the East there was German-puppet Serbia, to the South Italian controlled Greece and the West had Turkey, so the still free Balkan kingdom was strategically already done, even with overstretched Turco-German-Hungarian forces it was a risk too big to take unless something big.
The Iberian-Bulgarian Accord Negotiations
The Anglo-American diplomats, but mostly the British under pressure from Churchill, talked with Romanian, Czechoslovakian and Yugoslavian (Chetnik and Communist) representatives. The Sofia Deal included :
The last point, as expected, was the more problematic. The Bulgarian diplomats said they could join only by the end of the next year unless they wanted another Reichkomissariat, their Portuguese and Spanish counterparts relied in the same vein. After a long hour, despite Winston Churchill's anger, it was agreed all three nations would enter in November of 1944.
Carpathian Ruthenia would be given to Romania in exchange for ceding Dobrogea Yugoslavia for ceding to the claims of Bulgaria, would be getting Austrian territories bordering, to also compensate for the Cassibile Concordat Greece would be getting Thrace, except Adrianople, all the city of Istanbul and Smyrne from the Turkish National State All nations would be compensated for their territorial concessions in monetary form in US dollars, Czechoslovakia more because it will not be compensated with additional territory All nations will receive guarantee of protection from the United States and the British Empire and encroachment from future invaders. Bulgaria will immediately join the war effort as Italy did.
Portugual in the Sofia Deal would get :
Spain meanwhile would get Gabon and the city of Oran, with a secret promise they would get Gibraltar after the war was over.
- Casamance from French Africa
- West Timor from British Malaya Indonesia once free from Japanese occupation
- An American guarantee against all foreign aggressors
Germania Delenda Est : The Tehran KillingsAs the stealth bombing and killing of the SS VIPs in Wannsee shocked the world, so did Operation Long Jump, leaving only Winston Churchill alive.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was dead and also Stalin with most of his entourage composed by : Voroshilov, Zhdanov, Molotov, Andreyev, Merkulov, Shepilov and Bulganin, all because of the paranoia of the red Vozhd. It was a tragedy in the free world, it was a moment of immense joy in the Axis,which would see a morale boost and finally advance in the Eastern front. Little did they know they had doomed their country in this way. While the war would not be over soon, Churchill would push for its southern strategy to open a new front.