Medieval Map II

It's in the Romania area.... remeber I said forced south several thoasand miles.
 
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Hermanubis said:
Huh?
Toulouse is on this very post Visgothic Kingdom map here(1100)
1100big.jpg
See the Bourtas tribe on this map? You can have Muscovy push them south into the area just North of the the Casipin Sea.
 
Bourland? http://www.hostkingdom.net/siberia.html#Burtas

Magyar maybe sense they are of Magyarian Orgins?

Here is their stats form that site:

BURTAS (Udmurts or Votyak) A nomadic Finno-Ugric tribe inhabiting the region between the Don and the Volga rivers, especially centered around Izhevsk, northeast of Kazan. Some of their tribes may have contributed to the Magyar confederacy. Some scholars have identified them as Alan in origin (Burt-As) and with the Mishars and Mokshi of Russian historiography.
To the Bulgars...................................c.600-650 CE
To the Khazars.....................................650-1000
To the Pechenegs..................................1000-1030
To the Cumans.....................................1030-1238
To the Mongols and the Golden Horde...............1238-1427
To Kazan..........................................1427-1552
To Muscovy, and Russia thereafter...
Udmurt Auton. Soviet Republic (within USSR)..1934-1991
Republic of Udmurtia (within Russian Fed.)...1993-
 
Othniel said:
You can always use that site and come up with a people that might form a state, eh?
Yeah, still like to fill in the Caucasus if I could, but who knows? Perhaps without the Mongols, Moscow could take all that land? (And anyway, I figure that any little statlet that we come up with is going to get swallowed up by Muscovy later on any way, so…)
 
Hermanubis said:
Yeah, still like to fill in the Caucasus if I could, but who knows? Perhaps without the Mongols, Moscow could take all that land? (And anyway, I figure that any little statlet that we come up with is going to get swallowed up by Muscovy later on any way, so…)
They could take the land, but could they keep the land?
 
Yes, but long boarders make many points to defend. Do they have the people yet? Remeber they either would have to overextend themselves thus weakening the overall effectiveness of their millitary, or conceed several cities in the event of an attack. one area weak, or the whole army spread over the place, logically?
 
Othniel said:
Yes, but long boarders make many points to defend. Do they have the people yet? Remeber they either would have to overextend themselves thus weakening the overall effectiveness of their millitary, or conceed several cities in the event of an attack. one area weak, or the whole army spread over the place, logically?
True at this point, but I’m talking in the long run…
 
Othniel said:
If they strech themselves out at the beginning they most likely won't be there for the long run.
Well, I meant that they would take these later;right it could be a case of Client states and such (Which would show up on the next version of the map, I guess)
 
There are more partitions, this update. Even Poland, sorry! But hey, it was like this in 1300 OTL, so they will pull throe (as in OTL…)… About the Bourtas state we were talking about, in OTL there was a Mongol Khanate named Astrakhan after a city in that region, so I’ve decided that it can just be called that. I’ve also decided in favor of a Khazar revival (It might not make that much sense, but stranger things have happened, right?) because of lack of any fourth coming alternatives. I’ve also taken “Grand” out of the Title of the Principality of Vladimir and Muscovy, considering how much we’ve portioned it.

And few other things here and there.
 

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Since Poland was an elective kindgom, my guess is during that period none of the dukes managed to be elect king, but eventually they unified behind someone. The kingdom probably still existed in name however.
 

Thande

Donor
"Balkanised Europe" here, even though as you say OTL was hardly less fragmented in this period. Will be interesting to see where this one goes.
 
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