Alright, so now I’m not sure so much about where your talking about…Othniel said:It's in the Romania area.... remeber I said forced south several thoasand miles.
See the Bourtas tribe on this map? You can have Muscovy push them south into the area just North of the the Casipin Sea.Hermanubis said:Huh?
Toulouse is on this very post Visgothic Kingdom map here(1100)
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BURTAS (Udmurts or Votyak) A nomadic Finno-Ugric tribe inhabiting the region between the Don and the Volga rivers, especially centered around Izhevsk, northeast of Kazan. Some of their tribes may have contributed to the Magyar confederacy. Some scholars have identified them as Alan in origin (Burt-As) and with the Mishars and Mokshi of Russian historiography.
To the Bulgars...................................c.600-650 CE
To the Khazars.....................................650-1000
To the Pechenegs..................................1000-1030
To the Cumans.....................................1030-1238
To the Mongols and the Golden Horde...............1238-1427
To Kazan..........................................1427-1552
To Muscovy, and Russia thereafter...
Udmurt Auton. Soviet Republic (within USSR)..1934-1991
Republic of Udmurtia (within Russian Fed.)...1993-
That wouldn’t work so well, what with Hungary and all…Othniel said:Bourland?
Magyar maybe sense they are of Magyarian Orgins?
Yeah, still like to fill in the Caucasus if I could, but who knows? Perhaps without the Mongols, Moscow could take all that land? (And anyway, I figure that any little statlet that we come up with is going to get swallowed up by Muscovy later on any way, so…)Othniel said:You can always use that site and come up with a people that might form a state, eh?
They could take the land, but could they keep the land?Hermanubis said:Yeah, still like to fill in the Caucasus if I could, but who knows? Perhaps without the Mongols, Moscow could take all that land? (And anyway, I figure that any little statlet that we come up with is going to get swallowed up by Muscovy later on any way, so…)
Muscovy? Well, there is OTL…Othniel said:They could take the land, but could they keep the land?
True at this point, but I’m talking in the long run…Othniel said:Yes, but long boarders make many points to defend. Do they have the people yet? Remeber they either would have to overextend themselves thus weakening the overall effectiveness of their millitary, or conceed several cities in the event of an attack. one area weak, or the whole army spread over the place, logically?
If they strech themselves out at the beginning they most likely won't be there for the long run.Hermanubis said:True at this point, but I’m talking in the long run…
Well, I meant that they would take these later;right it could be a case of Client states and such (Which would show up on the next version of the map, I guess)Othniel said:If they strech themselves out at the beginning they most likely won't be there for the long run.
Well, historically Poland went from this:G.Bone said:wow...
uniting is going to be hard....