Medieval America Tk II: Discussion Thread

First of all, the entire concept is slightly ASB - the realistic concept would probably be more steampunk in nature (since people would still know where to get coal even in worse case scenarios). So everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Now to voice elkarlo's specific concerns of the Native Americans making a comeback - from a pure ethnic standpoint, no, they did not come back. Culturally, however, is a different matter. The way I saw New Mexico and the New Age religion breaks down as follows:

  1. 2012 Phenomenon hits, causing the Regression - details are scarce, but lots and lots of New Agers move to New Mexico (due to its 'paranormal' associations) to welcome in the Age of Aqaurius.
  2. New Mexico and Arizona go through population collapse as modern infrastructure decays. Water becomes worth more than gold
  3. The Reservations, being in pitiful locations to begin with, weather the Regression easier and become local power-brokers
  4. People who control access to water become more and more powerful, and use this to enforce their own spirtual views on the thirsty. This includes the Reservations, which have their own supply of water and knowledge of how to survive in the Southwest.
  5. Things stabilize - New Mexico and Arizona are now a collection of feuding city-states and fiefdoms whose rulers are descended from the influential people of the New Dark Ages. Intermarriage between these petty kingdoms is common, and as a result most nobles have Navajo or Hopi ancestry, which becomes a mark of pride
  6. By 2950 New Mexico has reunified and broken apart several times, and is now reunified. Both culture and religion are a blend of modern New Ageism and Ufology, Latino culture and Catholicism, and the aboriginal beliefs and cultures of the Southwestern Tribes, with New Ageism dominating.
Hope that clears some things up.
I know we're supposed to take White's work as canon, but I think that the population of the West Coast is far too small. California's Central Valley is one of the most fertile agricultural regions in the world, and the Willamette valley is highly productive also. Washington also produces a very large amount of grain that would go down the Columbia. The Pacific Northwest having as many people as rocky, infertile New England is ridiculous. And all of California having as many people as New York is just insane.
Firstly, I'd like to say that as soon as my exams finish (in a week) I'd like to start contributing to the properly.

Secondly, I think that the bolded parts in these two posts are where I got the wrong impression. In the first case, I assumed we were trying to be far more realistic than we actually are, and so imagined a world with much more advanced technology and knowledge in some areas (if at medieval levels in most) and with a lot more realistic religion, society etc. Not that some of this isn't realistic, but I have to say that all the minor religions becoming huge is rather strange. In the case of the second, I thought we were merely being inspired by White's work, not treating it as canon; that we would use his idea of a medieval America and some of the more standout aspects, but change a lot of what he wrote. This explains my confusion with a lot of what was said, and why the name Medieval America was kept, despite me thinking we should pick a title which describes the whole world.

With that said, I'd like to start contributing, although I must day my contributions will be a bit more down-to earth and a bit less canon to White's work than those made by the rest of you.

The problem is, I'm a Brit, and I really don't know enough about America to be able to help with the Medieval America part. I'd prefer it if I could do another area; even if I had to research it, it would still be beneficial for me because I wouldn't have to resist the urge to change canon into something more logical :p

So, anywhere outside America you reckon I can contribute?
 
How about Canada? There's been a lot of good discussion and speculation on the fate of Francophone Lower Canada thus far, but Anglophone Upper Canada has barely been scratched.
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure.

I understand if you don't wnat me to start with Europe or the Old World yet, but there are other possibilities.

I could talk about Hawaii, Alaska or the Carribean. The Alaska bit would probably be only one article, but quite a detailed one, and I could write several pieces on Hawaii and a LOT on the Carribean.

Any other suggestions?
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure.

I understand if you don't wnat me to start with Europe or the Old World yet, but there are other possibilities.

I could talk about Hawaii, Alaska or the Carribean. The Alaska bit would probably be only one article, but quite a detailed one, and I could write several pieces on Hawaii and a LOT on the Carribean.

Any other suggestions?
Alaska would work, as the current focus is on the PAC-NW.
 
Alaska would work, as the current focus is on the PAC-NW.
Well, I won't be making a contribution until next Wednesday at the earliest. My early idea is something like this; hit hard by the Regression, most of the inland communities in Alaska smply died off from cold and lack of food. The only community of non-natives (i.e. Americans) to survive was near Anchorage, which had its own problems simply from the huge number of people. The few locations around Anchorage suitable for agriculture remained sol these, in particular the valleys of the Matanuska, Snik and Susitna rivers, the Kenai peninsula, and the Chugach region, where the town of Ankrage lies, the main port in Alaska.

These areas are the richest and most prosperous lands in Alaska, and the rest of the other old 'Americans' live in either small coastal communities relying on fishing, or in small mountain communities practicing the same kind of dairy farming the Greenlandic Norse once did.

The sheer size and comparatively low population of merely the American part of Alaska means that central government is impossible; instead, a council is held comprised of the Mayors (a semi-hereditary post which is effectively the chief of a village and surrounds; it is notable because the Mayor chooses his successor dierectly; while it is almost always a member of his family, it is not necessarily a son, and if it is not necessarily a firstborn one. It may be a son-in-law, or simply another man from the village. These chiefs meet every year in Ankrage, in the Spring; the journey is made as soon as weather allows it. The internal politics of the Mayor's Council are generally messy; I'll go into more detail later.

As for the rest of Alaska, it has been returned to being the domain of the Yupik and Inuit, who practice traditional lifestyles, but with much better equipment than they did before, and with tribes being of a larger size; one even practices a limited form of agriculture at a place called Delta. Communication with the Americans is limited; some trade goes on, and occasionally some skirmishing; major wars have been fought only three times, all starting with an Inuit chief or chiefs trying to drive the Americans into the sea over old beliefs that the land belongs to them and all ending in status quo ante bellum.

Lastly, the region is often a place where adeventurers, some from quite far away, flock at the prospect of getting rich; old myths from before the Regression tell of a huge quantity of gold in the land, mostly to the north. While occasionalally gold is found, it is in small quantities, and Americans are used to greeting adventuers warmily, swindling them as much as possible and then relying on never seeing them again; which, almost invariably, they do not.
 
Northwesterners
Tucked away in the Cascade Mountains is a valley of heavy rainfall and massive woodlands. The so-called 'Other Rainforest', the remnants of Washington, Oregon, and British Columbia enjoy a secluded lifestyle seperate from the rest of America. The Columbia River and Pacific Ocean provide the primary means of communication and food supply, and these greatly influence the culture of the Northwest.

Food:
Fish.
Fish is what people think of when they think of the Northwest, and that is because fish is the staple of Northwest diet. Salmon, halibut, herring, clams, all can be fished from the waterways of the Northwest. But fish isn't the only foodstuff. The heavy water supply is ideal for rice, but rice is surprisingly rare (the temperature is too cold) - instead people grow fruits (apples especially), vegetables, wheat and barley, nuts, and raise dairy cattle. They also grow both grapes and coffee beans for beverage - coffee is the favored drink, due to its ability to be drunk warm.


Clothing:
The Northwesterners buy silk from Asia and wool and cotton from California, but most clothing is made from leather, hemp, and flax. Straw hats, wide-brimmed and cone shaped, are a must to keep the rain away. Aside from the hats, clothes tend to resemble the New England fashions, although men wear long kilts instead of trousers. In winter, an overcoat is commonplace among both genders. The Northwesterners enjoy colors, and dye their clothing all the colors of the rainbow.

Trade:
It is Portland were one will find one the continent's primary bookmaking industry - the other being Buffalo. Aside from books and fish, the Northwest tends to export metalwork and woodwork - the timber industry is a major source of wealth. Columbia tends to have a more traditional feudal economy, and mainly deals in foodstuffs. Pacific shipwrights are also skilled, although their ships resemble kayaks and junks more than the galleons of the Atlantic and Caribbean.

Society:
One would not be too far off by comparing the Northwest to Ancient Greece. Portland is the primary religious center, and Vancouver, Seattle and Astoria are amongst the primary cities, with Tacoma and Olympia coming in distant seconds. Columbia, then, is like Macedon. Because of it's isolation, the Northwest has been more influenced by her trade partners than the American kingdoms, and thus there's an undercurrent of Asian influence.

Sometimes, the cities will be bitten by the expansion bug. The most well known is Columbia's attempt to forge the entire west of the continent into an empire, but from time to time a fleet will sail from one of the cities and seize San Francisco from the Californians.
 
Anyone got thoughts on how my stuff on Alaska is sounding? I don't want to write out a huge piece on them if people don't like where I'm coming from.
 
Well, I kow it's too late, but you really have the Cowoy/Plains culture going much too far into the Central Rocky Mountians. While I could possibly see South and North Park developing similar is less nomadic versions of the Cowboy culture, Middle Park is much too isolated for a nomadic culture to develop.

What's cool about the "Parks" is that they are the headwaters of the North Platte (North Park), Colorado (Middle Park), and South Platte (South Park) Rivers (if you include the San Luis Valley as the "Fourth Park", you also get the Rio Grande Headwaters, and between Lake, Chaffee, and Fremont Counties, you also get the Arkansas Headwaters). I could see an enterprising warlord working to conquer these three (or five) isolated valleys in an attempt to control the "source" of these great rivers. Heck, Fremont County would be a great source of warlords in the early days, since it's got 15 ready-made forts in the form of the prisons (including ADX Florence, America's only Supermax and likely a source of Muslim Warlords in America).

Just had a funny idea, perhaps the Five Headwater Valleys are a group of Muslim Kimgdoms collectively called Al Uyun (The Springs), that while connected to both the Deseret and Cowboy cultures, is separate in their relatively peaceful Muslim faith.

Eh, I guess it doesn't matter, since it's not like this colab makes a whole lot of sense anyway.
 
Well, I kow it's too late, but you really have the Cowoy/Plains culture going much too far into the Central Rocky Mountians. While I could possibly see South and North Park developing similar is less nomadic versions of the Cowboy culture, Middle Park is much too isolated for a nomadic culture to develop.

What's cool about the "Parks" is that they are the headwaters of the North Platte (North Park), Colorado (Middle Park), and South Platte (South Park) Rivers (if you include the San Luis Valley as the "Fourth Park", you also get the Rio Grande Headwaters, and between Lake, Chaffee, and Fremont Counties, you also get the Arkansas Headwaters). I could see an enterprising warlord working to conquer these three (or five) isolated valleys in an attempt to control the "source" of these great rivers. Heck, Fremont County would be a great source of warlords in the early days, since it's got 15 ready-made forts in the form of the prisons (including ADX Florence, America's only Supermax and likely a source of Muslim Warlords in America).

Just had a funny idea, perhaps the Five Headwater Valleys are a group of Muslim Kimgdoms collectively called Al Uyun (The Springs), that while connected to both the Deseret and Cowboy cultures, is separate in their relatively peaceful Muslim faith.

Eh, I guess it doesn't matter, since it's not like this colab makes a whole lot of sense anyway.
Colorado has not been done yet, but it is not Herdsman- that map was just a general area.

In fact, Colorado doesn't seem to match any of the general areas.
 
The Desert has now been uploaded to the entries thread, and so should be considered closed (California notwithstanding)
 
I agree with nobodez, the Muslim part I mean, America is a incredibly diverse country and minorities every where would make a comeback compared to white Americans, I know we haven't touched on the south yet so I won't ramble any further til we get there, but a Muslim faction somewhere would be awesome, a place to crusade against
 
I agree with nobodez, the Muslim part I mean, America is a incredibly diverse country and minorities every where would make a comeback compared to white Americans, I know we haven't touched on the south yet so I won't ramble any further til we get there, but a Muslim faction somewhere would be awesome, a place to crusade against
Well, since ADX Florence has most of the Al-Qaeda prisoners on American soil (mostly from the first WTC bombings and the embassy attacks), that's why I was thinking the headwater valleys of Colorado's Rockies. Plus, like the actual medieval Muslims, they could be a bit more advanced than the surroundings, sort of like the dwarves in Tolkien as well.

I admit that Denver and the rest of the Front Range are part of the Plains culture, at least the periphery of it, and Grand Junction is solidly Deseret, but the valleys of the Rockies might still be unique.
 
Really interesting idea:). In other parts of the country, the largest Arabic Muslim community in the U.S. is generally considered to be Dearborn, Michigan. If you factor in significant Muslim populations in Chicago and Toronto, the Great Lakes would likely have the greatest chance for an active Islamic tradition. I don't think this would be a 'Crusades' analog, though. The Non-Denominational Church is not really structured that way. In the previous thread, there was a crusade detailed that caused a lot of destruction, but it was directly mostly against other Christians.
 
Last edited:
Really interesting idea:). In other parts of the country, the largest Arabic Muslim community in the U.S. is generally considered to be Dearborn, Michigan. If you factor in significant Muslim populations in Chicago and Toronto, the Great Lakes would likely have the greatest chance for an active Islamic tradition.
Works for me, I think I was pushing for Colorado just because it has a similar elevation and terrain to Afghanistan. Heck, even the northern part of the San Luis Valley is endorheic, though not as large as the Helmand valley.
 
California Free Zone: The Clarises (Religious Practicies)

I do not have a complete thing written for the Californias, but I do want to describe one religious phenomenon that emerged within Scientology there, particularly in the southern parts. That is the concept of "Clarises," a term for something described as "Clear Theta Clear" in the Scriptures. The common term today distinguishes it from the very different concept of "Clear," which simply indicates a member of the Church.

Conceptually, a Claris is a thetan who has advanced to the point where it no longer needs a body and is no longer limited by the physical universe. Though they played a minimal role in early Scientology, as the religion spread in the Californias the Clarises gradually became one of the most important focal points for popular religious devotion. Numerous people reported having contact with Clarises, and some apparitions became famous and the objects of informal local cults.

In the days when California formed a united empire, the Church was divided over the phenomenon. The authorities in Ellei, the religion's older center, were more inclined to support it, partly because it was by far more common in that part of California than further north. The official state establishment in San Francisco, being somewhat more purist than the older church bodies, dismissed most popular devotion to Clarises and withheld its official support from most local cults. Disagreement over the recognition of Clarises was the most prominent issue that led the Ellei churches to secede and declare the Free Zone. (There were other issues as well, most of them over highly technical theological points and no small amount of political disagreements. But the Claris controversy is most often cited as the issue that divided the two churches.)

By far the best-known Claris is known as the Blue Maiden. She has been appearing in visions to Californians for centuries and is so well known that even the Republic state church officially recognizes her, though the Free Zone is the center of her cult. The Blue Maiden always appears as a young woman in a celestial aspect, wearing a blue cloak covered in stars, standing atop the moon's crescent, and with the rays of the sun shining behind her. For most peasants of the Free Zone, devotion to the Blue Maiden is the most important aspect of their religious lives, much more important than the rather esoteric doctrines of the official Scriptures. Stories about the Blue Maiden's origins vary, but the Ellei Church's official version is that she was a thetan who inhabited a human body somewhere to the south beyond the desert, but who became enlightened and left her body behind even before her own death. She can travel to other planes but remains on Earth to help people in distress, often intervening in their lives in miraculous ways.

Other towns and villages have their own local Clarises, and the Free Zone church recognizes most of them, seeing them as a way to maintain the peasants' religious zeal. A doctrine that has developed since the Free Zone's independence is that the President of the Free Zone almost automatically reaches Claris status just before death. This doctrine has been expressed through the construction of increasingly elaborate shrines for Presidents, known as Contact Points. The shrines, normally built during the President's life to his own specifications, are said to provide a fixed spot that the Claris can locate, and in which the living clerics can get strength and guidance from the departed, glorified leader. Today, a president's Contact Point is a great work of architecture indeed, requiring years of labor and a tremendous input of resources.

Contact Points for other Clarises are more humble affairs, often no more than a crude shelter, a cultic image, and some candles. The practice of bringing offerings to the Claris has been discouraged in favor of donations directly to the Church, but it continues, as token gifts are said to remind the Claris of the humble state in which humans live, and to warm their hearts as they think back to their own human lives. The cultic images also don't readily fit into Scientological doctrine, but are seen as important for reaching illiterate peasants.
 
Last edited:
Ah, good, good.

Sorry about not responding earlier, but stuff came up (namely, getting a job and returning to school at the same time). That said, I'll see about modifying California's entry to represent this new information during the week.
 
Top