Medieval America Mark III

[Flashman]

Side Note: As Christians in Europe once viewed themselves as collectively as "Christendom", Non-Denom people might refer to themselves as "People of the Constitution" or "Constitutionals"

I think this may be used as a technical term, but generally people would just consider themselves "Christians," and the term "Christendom"

 

[tehskyman]

I think this may be used as a technical term, but generally people would just consider themselves "Christians," and the term "Christendom"

I guess the average warlord doesn’t consider Catholics and New Israelites to be Christians. Though in written accounts, since monks are some of the only literate people, if they used the term Constitutionals then most educated people would use that term too

 

[LostInNewDelhi]

That said, even if the feudal core was largely mixed, it's unlikely any animosity towards New Englanders would be based in some kind of restorative counter-white supremacy.

It won't be "counter-supremacy" but, intentionally or not, out of 266 popes 217 have been Italian. The aristocracy in and around the Federal Core probably matters as much to choosing Chief Justices and Senators as the dealings of the Italian (and especially the Roman) aristocracy did for the Popes and Cardinals. So even if the New Englanders aren't considered racially different they are still foreigners to this small region and its social networks. Mississippians and Red-Riverites probably get frozen out as much as the New Englanders do-- in this case they may be the equivalents of the long-suffering and Most Catholic Spaniards who have only produced 2 popes. So the Federal Core being more dark wouldn't matter as such (except as a "huh, that's interesting" for the reader), and it wouldn't certainly supersede the fraternity of Non-Denom. But it could still be a unique trait in a population that I don't think we've characterized much yet.

It seems that the United States presidents would be primarily white though there would be a number of Black presidents. Regarding the black population, it seems it is the Deep South which is Afro-European since White makes a big deal out of the mixing in the South. Plus, let's remember that a large amount of the black population is in the cities and thus would probably experience huge population drops meaning they would have less influence in MedAm than we would expect them to have based on modern populations. They are, after all, only 13.4% of the population.

The race of George Washington II hasn't been specified. That's because Medieval America has no concept of "race". Instead they see ethnicity. Southerners in general are darker than northerners. TBH as a poor man from the Chesapeake Bay area, he would have had some Black ancestry in him.

I think so far we've tried to avoid massive changes from the rough early-2000s locally-dominant culture unless that's specifically meant to create some kind of new concept, like... well pretty much the entire US west of the Mississippi. But wherever the Federal Core and its most important people fall on the sliding scale of light to dark, the area would at least be an ethnicity of its own (in the way that a Persian or Turk is not an Arab), so even as it tries to bind all the other ethnicities together it would remain conscious of itself (a consciousness that could be reinforced by differing skin tone even if it ultimately depends more on language, recent history, and social customs) and not allow itself to become overwhelmed; likewise, there would be resistance if it tried to overwhelm others (though its political position may make it a prestigious culture which people try to assimilate into).

 

[tehskyman]

It won't be "counter-supremacy" but, intentionally or not, out of 266 popes 217 have been Italian. The aristocracy in and around the Federal Core probably matters as much to choosing Chief Justices and Senators as the dealings of the Italian (and especially the Roman) aristocracy did for the Popes and Cardinals. So even if the New Englanders aren't considered racially different they are still foreigners to this small region and its social networks. Mississippians and Red-Riverites probably get frozen out as much as the New Englanders do-- in this case they may be the equivalents of the long-suffering and Most Catholic Spaniards who have only produced 2 popes. So the Federal Core being more dark wouldn't matter as such (except as a "huh, that's interesting" for the reader), and it wouldn't certainly supersede the fraternity of Non-Denom. But it could still be a unique trait in a population that I don't think we've characterized much yet.

I think so far we've tried to avoid massive changes from the rough early-2000s locally-dominant culture unless that's specifically meant to create some kind of new concept, like... well pretty much the entire US west of the Mississippi. But wherever the Federal Core and its most important people fall on the sliding scale of light to dark, the area would at least be an ethnicity of its own (in the way that a Persian or Turk is not an Arab), so even as it tries to bind all the other ethnicities together it would remain conscious of itself (a consciousness that could be reinforced by differing skin tone even if it ultimately depends more on language, recent history, and social customs) and not allow itself to become overwhelmed; likewise, there would be resistance if it tried to overwhelm others (though its political position may make it a prestigious culture which people try to assimilate into).

I see you point but I think that an important difference between Non Denom dynamics and Catholic dynamics is the unity of the Atlantic Seaboard.
Washington DC being attached to the hip to Baltimore and being a potential port of call itself is an important difference to Rome because it allows people from further away to be more influential in DC. Medieval Rome wasn't the easiest place to get to. Whereas Medieval DC is much more accessible.

Let's examine how the Justices of the Supreme Court are selected.

They are chosen from District Supervisors by the Senate. There tend to be more District Supervisors for New England (and the Canadian Maritimes).

The Senate theoretically represents each state equally, but the Western Senators are selected from Baltimore families and there are more senators from the North East. Senators who physically show up, so Senators from the Atlantic Seaboard are more influential, they are more responsive. So here you an interesting dynamic between New England and the Chesapeake Bay Area in the higher levels of the Church.

The New Englanders are more numerous but slightly less powerful individually, whereas Marylanders, Carolinians and Jerseyians are less numerous and more powerful individually. And the South and Midwest are mostly locked out of power.

So overall, you probably get a dynamic where the Supreme Court alternates between New Englander and Marylander control. This being based on internal dynamics within the US merchant families who make up the Senate.

Even then, New Englanders are not going to be one unified voting bloc. You're going to have merchant family alliances from various cities. The Marcos and Cuomos of New York aren't going to be allied against the Arlingtons and Hyatts from Baltimore just because both are from New York. It'll be more like, the Marcos of NYC and the O'Connors of Boston and the Hyatts from Baltimore are aligned against the Cuomos of NYC, the Hunts of Boston, Arlingtons of Baltimore and Sanchez's from Miami

 

[tehskyman]

Beyond that is the Neo-Medieval Guelph and Ghibelline factions. People are going to be more for the President in Baltimore vs the Chief Justice vs the President in Cincinnati. And they'll shape their dynamics around that.

 

[Richard Drummond]

Did we ever get an update on the United States itself and the function of its government? I can't remember.

 

[Flashman]

Did we ever get an update on the United States itself and the function of its government? I can't remember.

No there was never a formal update, just a long rambling sort of conversation, with one big post by me around the end of it to sum everything up. Still need to work it into a proper post.

 

[tehskyman]

Damn, this thread is 3 years old

 

[tehskyman]

Overview of factions and cliques of the USA

Reds
- Landowner based faction who want to see the US expand their land holdings in New England and the Mid Atlantic generally
- Advocate for expanding the vassal-state system
- Generally advocates for Crusades against the Quebecois and expansion along interior trade routes
- Wants to formally vassalize New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maine, Albany County instead of the hybrid vassal-tributary system they have right now
- Generally concerned about fighting Ohio's influence in Upstate New York and the Appalachians, Quebec in Upstate New York and New England and Georgia in the Carolinas
- Sub factions include, Chesapeake sub faction, Long Island and New England sub faction, colloquially called the Potomacs, Hudsons and the Charles'
- The Masons are associated with this faction as a way of spreading influence in the Midwest

Blues
- Merchant based faction who wants to see the US expand their overseas holdings in the South, Florida and Caribbean
- Wants more ports, trading posts and ships
- Generally advocates for Crusades/ wars in the Caribbean, taking Havana is a dream come true
- Wants to create a new State based out of Miami and the Bahamas
- Generally concerned about Cuba, and the State of Louisiana in the Caribbean, concerned about Georgia when it comes to control of the coast.
- Sub factions based around merchant family alliances.

Whites
- Church based faction who wants to expand the church's influence everywhere
- Wants to fight the infidels everywhere and reign in wayward district supervisors from the South and Midwest
- Wants to give the Supreme Court more power
- Will ally with either the Reds and the Blues depending on the situation

These three factions heavily influence the USA's foreign and domestic policies

Within the Church there are factions too though these are more geographic based

Ohio Faction: Advocates for the Commonwealth of Ohio. Growing stronger as Ohio grows stronger. Ohio hasn't yet forced an Avignon-style relocation , it got close before the Great Midwestern War and the Bailey's but it's gaining strength again. Generally pro-blue because it keeps the USA away from Ohio's ambitions

Warrior Order Faction: More militant, wanting Crusades against everyone. Neither pro-red nor pro blue

Southern Faction: Very weak, many Southern District Supervisors have been coopted by the Warrior Order

Mid-Atlantic Faction: A centralizing force for the church, demands that district supervisors enforce orthodoxy more rigorously. Neither particularly pro-red nor pro-blue. Very Anti-Ohio though

New England Faction: Generally pro-reform faction, reflecting the liberal and Catholic nature of New England. Neither particularly pro-red nor pro-blue. Also very anti-Ohio

 

[Umbric Man]

Damn, this thread is 3 years old

Good.

Credit due to credit due: original author M. White not only hit on a fantastic scenario and put in the work to make it show, but I also want to say it's been a wonderful blessing seeing the various incarnations of this thread keep on trucking and @Rob Bartlett's work on his own blog continuing over the years. If you ask me, "Medieval America" has been a very low-key yet long-running AH mainstay precisely because of this thread and its past versions, to where I've come to it to double-check plausibility on various workings of a pre-industrialized *America for my own ends and I know other situations researching the same base concept have likely stumbled upon this project as well.

The regular contributors and posters in this thread really deserve some applause.

 

[tehskyman]

Vassal States and Federal-States of the USA in 2950

List is not final, just providing a base to work off of.

Federal Jurisdiction

• Maryland
• Delaware
• Rhode Island?
• Nova Scotia
• New Brunswick
• Prince Edward Island
• Newfoundland

Directly Appointed Federal-States (Vassals of the USA)

• Virginia
• Pennsylvania
• New Hampshire
• Maine

Locally Appointed Federal-States (Tributaries of the USA)

• Massachusetts-Connecticut
• New Jersey

Locally Appointed Federal Counties (Tributaries of the USA)

• Westchester County
• Albany County
• Greene County
• Poekeepsy (Poughkeepsie) County

 

[Kerguelen]

Do you know what would be intresting? Indian Americans being lumped in with Native Americans by the Federal Government after years of misinterpretation and confusion.

 

[LostInNewDelhi]

Do you know what would be intresting? Indian Americans being lumped in with Native Americans by the Federal Government after years of misinterpretation and confusion.

It's an especially likely confusion in the Pacific Northwest, which probably conflates the two in order to make Buddhism the "native faith" of North America; but the only coherent South Asian communities are probably concentrated in Kuluradu or part of the Caribbean mosaic

 

[Kyranlee]

This has probably been questioned already but what would the steel production of medieval america be like if any? Proper steel seemed to be a rarity in the old middle ages at best from what ive researched.

 

[Petike]

I'd like to ask: If some things about this third iterations of the setting have been already nailed down and made "canon", would you people like me to make an article for them on our wiki ? Just to document how this worldbuilding project is going and what's been finalised so far. Let me know if there'd be interest.

 

[Flashman]

I'd like to ask: If some things about this third iterations of the setting have been already nailed down and made "canon", would you people like me to make an article for them on our wiki ? Just to document how this worldbuilding project is going and what's been finalised so far. Let me know if there'd be interest.

What wiki would that be?

And every article in the Table of Contents is canon, plus most (if not all) of the ones posted after the last ToC update.

 

[Petike]

What wiki would that be?

On our wiki, so this site's official wiki.

And every article in the Table of Contents is canon, plus most (if not all) of the ones posted after the last ToC update.

Right. I was thinking of doing abbreviated versions of the individual canon topics, and the rest would be linked from the article to this thread and the various threadmarks.

 

[tehskyman]

Lon our wiki, so this site's official wiki.



Right. I was thinking of doing abbreviated versions of the individual canon topics, and the rest would be linked from the article to this thread and the various threadmarks.

I personally would wait, because once we're done, I would like to have another thread to clean everything up

 

[Richard Drummond]

I personally would wait, because once we're done, I would like to have another thread to clean everything up

Indeed, I think it would be nice to have somewhere where official canon was easy to aceess.

 

[tehskyman]

Indeed, I think it would be nice to have somewhere where official canon was easy to aceess.

Our own medieval America site (or group of html files) would be nice