Medieval America Mark III

[HonestAbe1809]

Actually, the idea of Vegas suddenly being extinguished plays well into my original idea for it. I wanted it to mirror Irem of the Pillars, specifically this and this

It'd be interesting to see what would happen upon the collapse of Powell-Mead Civilization. And with the water flowing over the Hoover that'd make for a spectacular waterfall, until the water ate away at the concrete. I think this would be pretty quick. Look at how fast the water was eroding the Oroville Spillway

All that'd be left in the end would be a pair of giant concrete walls (assuming the waterfall didn't eat away at their foundations) with the colorado flowing between them. A sight to behold

But what about my idea of rain replenishing the groundwater? My idea is that there was a hedonistic Hydrological Empire known as Vegas. It rules the area for a while before the collapse of the great Hoova Dam destroys it. The replenished groundwater is enough for a pathetic shadow of the great empire to survive in the ruins of the great City of Vegas. A great monument to the founder of the Flagg* Dynasty becomes as bitterly ironic as Ozymandias. "I am Randall, King of Kings! Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

 

[tehskyman]

I wonder what the drug trade in this new America is like. I'm imagining horse drawn carriages with pounds of coca leaves, marijuana, and poppy flowers. They would eventually have to fight off the lions and cannibal tribes before they can enter the city of Las Vegas unless escaped zoo animals aren't canon anymore. Some of the Mexicans could introduce death worship with the Santa Muerete religion which gets incorporated into the horrifying heresy religion.

White mentioned Cocaine and tobacco in the original but marijuana can be grown pretty much anywhere so theres no need. Morphine would definately be traded for it's medical uses.

But what about my idea of rain replenishing the groundwater? My idea is that there was a hedonistic Hydrological Empire known as Vegas. It rules the area for a while before the collapse of the great Hoova Dam destroys it. The replenished groundwater is enough for a pathetic shadow of the great empire to survive in the ruins of the great City of Vegas. A great monument to the founder of the Flagg* Dynasty becomes as bitterly ironic as Ozymandias. "I am Randall, King of Kings! Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

Yea that makes sense. Everyone could say they had it coming with their hedonism.

 

[Flashman]

It'd be interesting to see what would happen upon the collapse of Powell-Mead Civilization. And with the water flowing over the Hoover that'd make for a spectacular waterfall, until the water ate away at the concrete. I think this would be pretty quick. Look at how fast the water was eroding the Oroville Spillway

All that'd be left in the end would be a pair of giant concrete walls (assuming the waterfall didn't eat away at their foundations) with the colorado flowing between them. A sight to behold

I don't think erosion would be quite so quick: by 700 years, concrete would've cured to the point that its literally as hard as the canyon walls. While it obviously wouldn't last forever, the process of erosion is only just beginning by 1000 post-regression.

 

[Flashman]

White mentioned Cocaine and tobacco in the original but marijuana can be grown pretty much anywhere so theres no need. Morphine would definately be traded for it's medical uses.

I wonder if alchemical-type techniques could be jury rigged to create amphetamines.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I don't think erosion would be quite so quick: by 700 years, concrete would've cured to the point that its literally as hard as the canyon walls. While it obviously wouldn't last forever, the process of erosion is only just beginning by 1000 post-regression.

Then how about cause of the fall of the Vegan Empire being political rather than environmental? Namely a massive civil war that reduced the city to ruins and a pathetic remnant of a once mighty empire that still hasn't recovered even centuries after the fall of the Empire.

 

[Flashman]

Then how about cause of the fall of the Vegan Empire being political rather than environmental? Namely a massive civil war that reduced the city to ruins and a pathetic remnant of a once mighty empire that still hasn't recovered even centuries after the fall of the Empire.

I think its a combination of several factors: dynastic conflict, as you say. A decadent and incapable ruling class, addicted to coke and meth. The failure of the dams downriver. And mining out steel beneath the city, causing it to cave in during a battle.

 

[Kerguelen]

Will escaped zoo animals still be canon in this project?

 

[tehskyman]

I don't think erosion would be quite so quick: by 700 years, concrete would've cured to the point that its literally as hard as the canyon walls. While it obviously wouldn't last forever, the process of erosion is only just beginning by 1000 post-regression.

It wouldn't just be the water flowing over the edge eroding the dam. The plunge pool eats away at the concrete and the rock too. The dam is 200m tall. Thats a lot of potential energy.

For every cubic meter (1000 liters / 1000kg) of water flowing over the edge, it gains almost 2 million joules. And the colorado river flow is on average 673m^3 per second, up to 10k per second during floods, down to 12m^3 during droughts. Now not all of that energy erodes at the dam but still alot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam#/media/File:Oroville_Dam_spillway_damage_27_Feb_2017.jpg

The Oroville dam is similar in height to the Hoover (235 m). Look at what happened to the rock when 1400m^3 was flowing over it.

 

[tehskyman]

Without human intervention, the Niagara Falls erode upstream at about 1m/year. And that emits a comparable amount of energy (60 m tall with 5.7k m^3)

 

[Flashman]

It wouldn't just be the water flowing over the edge eroding the dam. The plunge pool eats away at the concrete and the rock too. The dam is 200m tall. Thats a lot of potential energy.

For every cubic meter (1000 liters / 1000kg) of water flowing over the edge, it gains almost 2 million joules. And the colorado river flow is on average 673m^3 per second, up to 10k per second during floods, down to 12m^3 during droughts. Now not all of that energy erodes at the dam but still alot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam#/media/File:Oroville_Dam_spillway_damage_27_Feb_2017.jpg

The Oroville dam is similar in height to the Hoover (235 m). Look at what happened to the rock when 1400m^3 was flowing over it.

Yes but again, the oroville dam is made of comparatively new concrete that has not totally cured, and is vastly more porous and therefore susceptible to erosion. I'm not saying that the dam will be in perfect shape, I just think that by the time this project is set in, it will be more like a cliff then anything else.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I think its a combination of several factors: dynastic conflict, as you say. A decadent and incapable ruling class, addicted to coke and meth. The failure of the dams downriver. And mining out steel beneath the city, causing it to cave in during a battle.

All adding up to a pathetic hole in the ground that hasn't been conquered by its neighbors for the simple fact that it's simply not worth it anymore. Especially if the land beneath the city has become unstable due to the rampant undermining of the city's foundations. The remnant wouldn't be lacking in water but it'd be a considered a town at best and a hamlet at worst. I still want the old Vegan ruling house to be named House Flagg as a reference to Stephen King's The Stand. This is just yet another interesting concept that needs to be covered after Laska. At this rate, it'll be weeks before we cross the Mississippi.

 

[Flashman]

All adding up to a pathetic hole in the ground that hasn't been conquered by its neighbors for the simple fact that it's simply not worth it anymore. Especially if the land beneath the city has become unstable due to the rampant undermining of the city's foundations. The remnant wouldn't be lacking in water but it'd be a considered a town at best and a hamlet at worst. I still want the old Vegan ruling house to be named House Flagg as a reference to Stephen King's The Stand. This is just yet another interesting concept that needs to be covered after Laska. At this rate, it'll be weeks or even months before we cross the Mississippi.

Actually, I was thinking House House: The House Always Wins

 

[tehskyman]

There are more points of failure than the dam body itself. The rock underneath the dam is going to be eroded by the power of the waterfall.

 

[Flashman]

Without human intervention, the Niagara Falls erode upstream at about 1m/year. And that emits a comparable amount of energy (60 m tall with 5.7k m^3)

Fair enough. Lets be optimisitc and say two towers flanking a waterfall.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

Actually, I was thinking House House: The House Always Wins

I think that the Stephen King book would have more staying power than Fallout: New Vegas. Plus calling it "House House" sounds silly to me.

There are more points of failure than the dam body itself. The rock underneath the dam is going to be eroded by the power of the waterfall.

Fair enough. Lets be optimisitc and say two towers flanking a waterfall.

That's just another reason why the Empire of Vegas would fall and be turned into a shrunken remnant of its former self.

 

[tehskyman]

Sounds like a sight to behold

 

[Flashman]

I think that the Stephen King book would have more staying power than Fallout: New Vegas. Plus calling it "House House" sounds silly to me.

I don't think New Vegas has any staying power (sadly). However, I don't think The Stand does either- ask the average kid about it today. Even better, ask the average rural kid about it, because that's who most of Medieval America is descended from. An idea that absolutely has staying power is the idea of Las Vegas as a city of sin, home to Lady Luck, and where the house always wins.

 

[HonestAbe1809]

I don't think New Vegas has any staying power (sadly). However, I don't think The Stand does either- ask the average kid about it today. Even better, ask the average rural kid about it, because that's who most of Medieval America is descended from. An idea that absolutely has staying power is the idea of Las Vegas as a city of sin, home to Lady Luck, and where the house always wins.

Then how about the ruling family of the Vegan Empire ruling out of Caesar's Palace and calling themselves Caesars? I still like the idea that the first Caesar being named Randall because it makes it clear that his dynasty was started by random charismatic man. The image of an Ozymandian monument amongst the ruins is too good not to include.

Plus there could be a cult worshiping a goddess they call "Lady Luck". The fall of Vegas would ironically strengthen the cult since they'd see it as Lady Luck striking down the Vegans for trying to "cheat the system" or something.

 

[Flashman]

Then how about the ruling family of the Vegan Empire ruling out of Caesar's Palace and calling themselves Caesars? I still like the idea that the first Caesar being named Randall because it makes it clear that his dynasty was started by random charismatic man. The image of an Ozymandian monument amongst the ruins is too good not to include.

Plus there could be a cult worshiping a goddess they call "Lady Luck". The fall of Vegas would ironically strengthen the cult since they'd see it as Lady Luck striking down the Vegans for trying to "cheat the system" or something.

I actually was thinking that "Caesar" would be the title, Hosue would be the family name.

What about Randall House?

 

[tehskyman]

What about a guy named Random House after the publisher. Like he picks up a book, the rest of it is faded except for the publishers logo