Medieval America Mark III

I actually think our own threads have predated ATE as a concept, lest we panic. Certainly Matthew White's canon does.
Oh without a doubt, but ATE is already vastly more popular than this concept has ever been, so I'm sure a lot of people would just look at this project as a rip-off.
 
Gilgal: Statuary in Deseret

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Gilgal is a word used by the Deserti to refer to a kind of desert shrine and a style of Mormon architecture. The oldest Gilgal is to be found in the heart of Salt Lake City - decidedly not the wilderness. Mormon myth holds that this first Gilgal was established at the order of Brigham Young when the land was still wilderness, much as Joshua established a gilgal when the Israelites first crossed the river Jordan.

In the early days of Deseret, the Gilgal became one of many revered sites of pilgrimage and prayer. However, it took on a new significance when the Mormons were banished into the wilderness by the victory of the Jaegers and the Columbians. Most of their permanent buildings and temples were lost to them, destroyed or occupied by pagans. Worship became mobile, following the example of the Israelites and the tabernacle. In addition, tribes would gather to build simple megalithic constructions as meeting places and places of collective worship.

When the Mormons began to re-conquer Deseret from the collapsing Jaeger empire, however, the prophet Jeremy Sallt proclaimed that when they crossed into the Provo valley, Gilgal would be reconsecrated just as Joshua had built the first Gilgal when he crossed the Jordan. And so it was. The style of the gilgal has now become one of the prime architectural influences in the new temple constructions, in addition to the old-world style of Mormon temple architecture.
 
Isle of Dwarves and Giants: Ecology of Bermuda

Since life first invaded the land, islands have served as worlds in miniature, disconnected from the mainland’s ferocious competition. From the dwarf dinosaurs of Hatzeg to the giant lemurs of Madagascar and the flightless birds of New Zealand, they have allowed the few who reach them to evolve into forms alien to the rest of the world. Of course, the vast majority of island biodiversity would disappear in the face of human colonization. The inhabitants had lost their fear of outsiders, and were easy targets for explorers in need of food.

During the course of the Regression, many islands, particularly smaller, more isolated ones, would lose contact with the outside world. While many would simply revert to a more tribal lifestyle, a few isles would prove unable to support their stranded human inhabitants. People would fight each other over scraps of food and drinkable water. When those finally dried up, the few remaining survivors would succumb to hunger and dehydration. And when the last inhabitant of the island passed, the microsphere would return to the wild. In most cases, however, it would not be the surviving native species that would claim the islands, but instead the creatures man brought with him. Livestock, pets, pests, and introductees would find a blank slate for them to adapt to. While many would be unable to survive without human settlement, a few managed to hold on.

A good example of the trends listed above is Bermuda. 768 miles from the mainland, before settlers arrived, it was a home to unique island birds, such as flightless ducks, Bermuda towhees, and a unique species of tortoise. After humans arrived and colonized the island, only a handful of endemic species, such as the Bermuda petrel, longnose skink, and Bermuda ant survived. And after humans died out, the introduced species began to proliferate.

Another trend that Bermuda exhibits is Foster’s rule. The general idea is that, on islands, large animals will generally get smaller while small animals will generally get larger. The reason is twofold. For one, resources. Large animals require more food to survive, and since islands are, by definition, smaller than continents, there’s less food than on the mainland. Thus, it’s more efficient to be smaller and require fewer resources. By contrast, smaller animals can afford to grow larger to meet the capacity of their environment. The second part is competition and predators. Islands tend to lack the common predators and competitors, allowing island species to not have to worry about being eaten or having to fight for food as much.

900 years later, Bermuda is a very different place. No human has set foot on the island in nearly 800 years, sans the occasional shipwrecked human who doesn’t last very long. Florally, it's a mix of species native to the island (such as the Bermuda cedar and Bermuda sedge) and introduced species. A similar story is found in the invertebrate fauna. By contrast, Bermuda has no native amphibians, though introduced cane toads and Antilles coqui have naturalised with the island’s fauna.

A more interesting development can be seen in reptiles. Most notably, introduced Jamacian anoles are showcasing a very common trend among insular anoles. Like in the Caribbean, anoles are converging on a specific set of ecomorphs. While not enough time has passed for speciation, the different ecomorphs are much more likely to breed with themselves than other ecomorphs; in a few thousand or hundred thousand years, its likely true speciation will occur. Crown giants are, as the name suggests, relatively large anoles that live in the highest portions of trees. They jump from tree to tree and can eat smaller lizards and even birds eggs. Trunk-crown are much smaller and live on the uppermost trunk and lower canopy. Short legs and large toes allow them to climb with ease. On Bermuda, trunk-crown are the most basal, as the ancestral Jamacian anole was of this ecomorph. Finally, trunk-ground anoles live on the lower trunk and nearby rocks. These are the least colorful of the ecomorphs present. While there are several other anole ecomorphs, none have developed on Bermuda just yet. Still, it serves as a fascinating display of convergent evolution.

Birds, meanwhile, have fewer stand-out differences. Smaller birds, like sparrows and cardinals, have grown slightly larger, while larger birds, like crows and owls, have shrunk somewhat. The most notable change is among chickens. They are noticeably larger than mainland breeds, and roosters have more vibrant feathers and combs. This is likely a response to the relative lack of predators, allowing males to dedicate more resources to extravagant displays.

The most dramatic change, however, is the presence of land mammals. Before the Europeans, the only mammals found were marine mammals and a handful of bats. Now, eight terrestrial mammals call Bermuda home.

Three of the eight are rodents, all of them nearly double their ancestor’s size. House mice are most common in the grassier parts of the island, nibbling on seeds and blades of grass. They play an important role in these ecosystems, serving as prey for larger predators. Brown rats, meanwhile, are the most carnivorous of the rodents present; their incisors make short work of land crabs and other invertebrates, and sometimes even take small lizards and frogs. They are still omnivorous, though, and readily eat seeds. Black rats have begun to move up into the trees. With no squirrels introduced, they form a very rough approximation of their niche. This makes them in close proximity to owls, who make up a large portion of their diet.

Often considered rodents, rabbits are also found in Bermuda during the New Medieval age. They are most common in more open areas, grazing on grass for most of their food. Interestingly, they have adapted to the relative lack of resources; while not deviating too much in size, they produce a noticeably smaller litter than most leprids, most likely an adaptation to avoid overpopulation. To compensate for fewer offspring, mothers devote more energy to caring for their kits, ensuring more survive to adulthood.

Cats, ever the adaptable hunter, are thriving on the island. Indeed, very little has changed from their domestic ancestors aside from a selection towards a brown tabby coat to better blend in. They are more common in forested parts. Despite their larger size, cats are still the primary predator of the island’s rodent population.

The last three mammals are arguably the strangest animals on the island. All of them are considerably smaller than their domestic ancestors, and behave quite differently.

The first is the Bermuda dwarf pig. At 18 inches tall and weighing no more than 150 pounds at maturity, they are among the smallest pig breeds in the world. Their coat is commonly bristly, and usually a brown to blend in with the foliage. Piglets have re-evolved the stripes found on wild boar. Their diet is very varied, incorporating fruits, nuts, tubers, insects, small vertebrates, and even carrion; indeed, the event that brings the most amount of pigs, or indeed any animal that incorporates meat into its diet, together is the washing ashore of a whale carcass. While wild boars are known for their ferocity, dwarf pigs are very flighty, their size making them common prey items for Bermuda’s larger predators.

The predator that preys the most on dwarf pigs is the Bermuda wild dog. With the wildly different breeds that formed their ancestors, it can be somewhat difficult to generalize their physical attributes. Their coats are usually short, but the patterns on them range wildly, from solid colors to patches, spots, saddlebacks, and just about any pattern modern breeds have. Broadly speaking, adults range in size 24 inches tall and weigh 43 pounds to 14 inches tall and weigh 10 pounds; most are around 18 inches tall and weigh 22 pounds. This puts them, on average, the size of a red fox, which is a fairly apt comparison. They are omnivores with a carnivorous bend, preying on rodents, rabbits, ground birds, and dwarf pigs, while also eating berries, fruit, and even some grains. Bermuda wild dogs are less social than domestic dogs, a byproduct of fewer resources making large packs infeasible. Pairs are monogamous, often hunting together. Still, there are a few occasions that bring a large number of dogs together, namely large carcasses washing ashore, and the calving season of the last mammal.

The Bermuda dwarf cattle is the largest land animal on the island. While a giant compared to the other animals of the island, it is positively puny compared to most cattle breeds; the best reference would be the Dexter cattle, with the height of a large dog and the weight of a large boar. They are also the rarest animal, with there only being 200-400 individuals at any given time. Their diet incorporates a relatively large amount of browse, at least when compared to most cattle. Bulls sport relatively large horns, comparable in size to a more standard-sized breed. This is a reflection of their behavior. While most island species become more docile with fewer predators, the scarcity of resources and cows, combined with nothing that can consistently hunt them, has made bulls incredibly aggressive, especially during mating season. Fights between bulls are brutal, often leaving the loser dead. Indeed, few males die of old age, and those who do have the scars of a true survivor. Also, while adults are virtually free of predators, calves are sometimes picked off by large groups of wild dogs.

Despite being the largest mammalian carnivore on the island, wild dogs aren’t the apex predator. That title belongs to a colonizer that arrived a mere 500 years ago. Golden eagles can, and do, hunt every creature on the island except adult cattle. They roost in large trees and on rocky outcroppings, away from most potential egg thieves.

Bermuda, despite being a unique glimpse of an ecosystem deprived of humans, it is almost certainly not one to last. While the ships of the United States or the State of Louisiana have not yet mastered open ocean travel, it seems inevitable that, sooner or later, humanity will someday rediscover Bermuda. And when that day comes, it will spell the end of the unique life that calls the island home. They will join the likes of the moa and the dodo and the large marsupials of Australia as insular victims of human colonization. But until that day, Bermuda will be a bizarre world, unlike anything around today.
 
Honestly, its a big thread and I miss stuff. Sometimes I think we should just all do our own personal worldbuilding threads of the Medieval America idea since some people do that and there's so many conflicting ideas and details.
 
Honestly, its a big thread and I miss stuff. Sometimes I think we should just all do our own personal worldbuilding threads of the Medieval America idea since some people do that and there's so many conflicting ideas and details.
I kinda agree with your argument. Bout it will kinda helps if someone update the threadsmarks by now.
 
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This was uploaded yesterday, and the maker stated he was heavily inspired by Matthew White's canon while adding in his own twists. A number of maps and concepts also display clear influence from Colin Woodard's American Nations.
 

This was uploaded yesterday, and the maker stated he was heavily inspired by Matthew White's canon while adding in his own twists. A number of maps and concepts also display clear influence from Colin Woodard's American Nations.
My one big critique with this is that the Mississippi Valley wouldn't be as exposed as thinks. The Ozark-Ouachita ranges would blunt nomadic attacks on the Arkansas Valley and most of SE Missouri, as would the Minnesota River (anyone with half a brain would fortify the fords along it) in the north. I also imagine that the appeal of fertile farmland in Iowa and N Missouri--the collapse of the Oglalla Aquifer would only affect the High Plains proper--would push any centralized state to push westward, which means that after a few centuries the riverland should be fairly defensible. At the very least, there would be !Cossacks in Iowa and Missouri.
 
My one big critique with this is that the Mississippi Valley wouldn't be as exposed as thinks. The Ozark-Ouachita ranges would blunt nomadic attacks on the Arkansas Valley and most of SE Missouri, as would the Minnesota River (anyone with half a brain would fortify the fords along it) in the north. I also imagine that the appeal of fertile farmland in Iowa and N Missouri--the collapse of the Oglalla Aquifer would only affect the High Plains proper--would push any centralized state to push westward, which means that after a few centuries the riverland should be fairly defensible. At the very least, there would be !Cossacks in Iowa and Missouri.
I feel exactly the same way. As someone who is ironically a big proponent of the USA resembling a China more than a Roman Empire in unification due to geography and history/culture, I imagine even if politically divided, Americanic civilization and organized realms would extend west to the Rockies based on what you say - the equivalent of steppe barbarian/raiders would be in Montana and North Dakota (perhaps - the Missouri River IS navigable) and the Canadian Prairie (for sure) since states in *Wyoming (Oregon Trail, eh) and *Colorado (Santa Fe Trail) would likely evolve simply due to transcontinental trade routes and a need for forts/trading posts that WILL inevitably grow into cities.

And if they're coming from the northermost American Great Plains and Canadian Prairie... well, "northern hordes attacking the more southerly empire" is a concept not foreign to history via Rome's Germanics, China's Altaics, and Persia's fellow Iranics and foreign Turkics.
 
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I feel exactly the same way. As someone who is ironically a big proponent of the USA resembling a China more than a Roman Empire in unification due to geography and history/culture, I imagine even if politically divided, Americanic civilization and organized realms would extend west to the Rockies based on what you say - the equivalent of steppe barbarian/raiders would be in Montana and North Dakota (perhaps - the Missouri River IS navigable) and the Canadian Prairie (for sure) since states in *Wyoming (Oregon Trail, eh) and *Colorado (Santa Fe Trail) would likely evolve simply due to transcontinental trade routes and a need for forts/trading posts that WILL inevitably grow into cities.

And if they're coming from the northermost American Great Plains and Canadian Prairie... well, "northern hordes attacking the more southerly empire" is a concept not foreign to history via Rome's Germanics, China's Altaics, and Persia's fellow Iranics and foreign Turkics.
I disagree in this being a likely scenario, but I laud you for composing such an interesting idea.

IMO, the most likely scenario is that the High Plains remain nomadic until the advent of gunpowder and/or industrialization, which historically negated the advantage held by the nomads in Eurasia. Little states due pop up in Colorado and Wyoming, but they're like the OTL states of the northern Caucasus, paying tribute to the nomads for safety and facilitating trade across the plains. The rivers will probably act as corridors of civilization, but it will be difficult to farm there until the advent of the heavy plow and gunpowder.
 
Sorry to triple post, but this has got my dander up, and I think it could be valuable to the thread at large.

In his video, Whatifalthist postulates that agriculture in the region would break down in the following manner:
WIAH Agricultural America.png

This is, frankly speaking, the dumbest agricultural map I've ever seen for the US.

Let's start with Corn. As shown in the below map (courtesy of the Department of Agriculture), corn is dominant in the Midwest and the Great Lakes region, as well as down the Mississippi to the southern end of the inland delta. It is somewhat common across the south, but by no means is it a staple crop.
Corn.png

Wheat.png

Wheat, on the other hand, is grown almost entirely on the Great Plains, with smaller harvesting areas in the Midwest and eastern South.

From these maps, we can deduce that the staple crop for the Midwest and general North would be corn, with wheat as one of many secondary crops, alongside sugar beets (primarily in the far north), oats and potatoes, neither of which are grown in great numbers in the south. That, of course, brings us to the question of what the staple crop of the south would be?
Soybeans.png
Rice.png

Soybeans and rice, while grown to an extent in the north, and the dominant crops of the south, along with corn. The lattermost crop is the smallest of the three, as despite the smaller acreage of rice, it yields more calories than corn does and thus holds a slightly higher dominace. Soy beans are still the dominant crop, though, and would likely shift further south in Medieval America due to a more conducive climate. I should also note that soybean and cotton compete for the same soil, so with cotton no longer produced on such a scale due to a lack of industrial demand, it would grow in importance massively.

Let's touch on secondary crops now. WIAH's map shows sugar being grown in Louisiana and north Florida, and tobacco as being grown in Kentucky and Virginia. This is, for the most part, accurate. As the maps below show, tobacco is grown primarily in central Kentucky, but Virginia and North Carolina have the right soils and weather to do it as well. It should also be noted that sugar is grown in Florida and coastal Louisiana, but the lion's share is actually grown in Texas and inland Louisiana. However, most sugar production would actually be in the far north, as sugar beets could be grown in the far north around the Great Lakes
Rice.png
Sugarcane.png
Tobacco.png
 
Part 2:

Next, onto livestock. As these maps show, the bulk of cattle in the US are farmed on the high plains and/or the Midwest, while the majority of hogs are also farmed in the Midwest, with substantial populations in the south as well. Sheep are primarily grown in Texas, the plains, and California. From this, we can deduce that the stock of the plainsmen would be predominantly cattle, not sheep as WIAH posits, and that the prime domesticates of the Midwest would be cattle and hogs. The chief livestock of the south would be hogs and chicken, once again as show below.
Hogs.png

Sheep.jpg

Goats.jpg


In conclusion, the agricultural packages of Medieval America would be roughly as follows, by order of magnitude:

Far West: Wheat, corn & rice; Sheep, cattle and goats
Plains: Cattle, sheep, hogs, goats
North: Corn, wheat and soybeans; hogs and cattle
South: Soybeans, corn, rice; Chicken, hogs
 
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Next, onto livestock. As these maps show, the bulk of cattle in the US are farmed on the high plains and/or the Midwest, while the majority of hogs are also farmed in the Midwest, with substantial populations in the south as well. Sheep are primarily grown in Texas, the plains, and California. From this, we can deduce that the stock of the plainsmen would be predominantly cattle, not sheep as WIAH posits, and that the prime domesticates of the Midwest would be cattle and hogs. The chief livestock of the south would be hogs and chicken, once again as show below.
View attachment 638294
View attachment 638295
View attachment 638298

In conclusion, the agricultural packages of Medieval America would be roughly as follows, by order of magnitude:

Far West: Wheat, corn & rice; Sheep, cattle and goats
Plains: Cattle, sheep, hogs, goats
North: Corn, wheat and soybeans; hogs and cattle
South: Soybeans, corn, rice; Chicken, hogs
That's actually really helpful, since I'm considering doing a thing on specific breeds of domestic animals. Don't have too much codified, nor do I know how I want to format it (i.e. looking at specific breeds, individual species, or at general regions), but I do have a few ideas, mostly about dog breeds.
 
That's actually really helpful, since I'm considering doing a thing on specific breeds of domestic animals. Don't have too much codified, nor do I know how I want to format it (i.e. looking at specific breeds, individual species, or at general regions), but I do have a few ideas, mostly about dog breeds.
Interesting. Could you tell me more?
 
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