Medieval America Mark III

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Flashman, Jun 21, 2017.

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  1. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    I think it would be all landowners across the USA .- which is wildly large franchise for the medieval era, but its hard to justify anything else for the US.

    Perhaps the "George Washington II" figure could've codified all of this in the "Articles of Emergency?" Such a text could affirm the importance of the Constitution and its inevitable return, and become a revered text in and of itself. George Washington II could be the first officially recognized of the Patriot-Saints.
     
  2. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    You might start to see lesser landowners side with greater landowners to form a Land Faction/Party. Then you have the Merchant Houses who are more urban. They would advocate on behalf of the Navy and naval trade. They are the Sea Faction/Party.

    There might be a church/ecclesiastic faction too.
     
  3. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    This USA seems more like Venice than the Byzantines
     
  4. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Its a little of both, but Venice is definitely closer.

    EDIT: The Land faction could be the "Reds" because of the blood of the people and all that, whereas the Naval faction are the "Blues" due to their assosciation with the sea. The Clergy are the whites, and can go one way or another.

    Also, all national parks in Nondenominational land would go the USA, and in most cases the Church. Same for Indian reservations?
     
  5. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    How are people going to vote on the President though? Are President's elected upon death?
     
  6. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I think that immediately after the Regression, most government land not in the Chesapeake Bay Area was claimed by local warlords. The Church/ Rump USA has some claim but noone gives a shit.

    Also, like the faction names.
     
  7. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    Does the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal still exist? It exists at sea level and is about 11 m deep
     
  8. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    One way would be to have an electoral college maintained and continue to respond to the votes of the states. You could either have every state maintain its pre-regression electoral votes, or you could have every state regressed to three EVs, two of them going to the sovereign and one going to the clergy.

    Or you could have the EC either suspended or otherwise re-purposed. Since its suspended and therefore no candidate can reach a majority of EVs, the election is automatically thrown to the House the day after Election Day (now a religious holiday). The Senate would still elect the Vice President.

    But all of them would still maintain theoretical fealty to the President and especially to the Church. Just look at how much land the Papacy held in the HRE.

    Any Medieval European canals of comparable size?
     
  9. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I say that the articles of emergency have suspended the electoral college. Elections are now held only in the regions the government controls and the Senate no longer exists. The Articles of Emergency now dictate that the President is able to appoint a vice President because the states are unable to send representatives to the Senate.

    No medieval canals exist of comparable width. Volume wise maybe the Chinese Grand Canal works. Maybe the Canal has mostly silted up over time though it is still large enough for medieval sized ships to travel through
     
  10. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I guess that Federal Land would probably revert to Church control.
     
  11. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    I don't think the Senate should be abolished for two reasons: firstly, symbolic. The Nondenominational Church reveres the Constitution, and each state's right to senatorial representation is practically sacrosanct within the current language of the Constitution. It's technically impossible to amend away a state's representation in the Senate. Secondly is practical: without the Senate, the states would have no say in Church affairs since judicial appointments are approved by the Senate. I think the Articles of Emergency should contain a "gentlemen's agreement" that the Senate will serve as a rubber stamp for all matters internal to Federal land, and legislation pertaining to Federal land will only be introduced in the House. All Church relevant legislation can only be introduced in the Senate, and requires a supermajority. Further, the two Senators each state is entitled to could be divided between one for the government and one for that state's ecclesiastical supervisory.

    I think having the Vice President elected by the Senate would be important, as the Vice President is President pro Tempore of the Senate. This would give the States further say in the affairs of the Senate. Further, the Vice Presidency isn't super important: since Presidents serve a life term, the Vice President would only remain in charge until the next post-Election Day, at which point the house would vote on a new President and the Senate on a new Vice President.

    I considered the Chinese Grand Canal, but no Eastern state is even remotely comparable to the Chinese.

    Yeah, inland almost all federal territory reverts to the Church, but on the coasts they could serve as the avenues for expansion for federal control.
     
  12. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I guess District Supervisors send Ecclesiastic Senators to Washington DC. I presume then that the Senate sits in DC and that the House and Presidency has been moved to Baltimore.
     
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  13. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    With the President still sworn in at the Capitol by the Chief Justice.
     
  14. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    Are there secular senators or just ecclesiastic ones?
     
  15. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Half are ecclesiastic insofar as they are appointed by the Church, and half are secular insofar as they are appointed by secular sovereigns, but possibly even these are still churchmen that the sovereigns appoint, just loyal ones.
     
  16. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    The discussions are interesting. I'm thinking the Senators are appointed to by the District Supervisors who are their state's representative. Thus the Senate is alligned more closely infact with the Church rather than the USA itself. The House of Reps is filled with landlords, merchants, sailors etc. who come from across the USA and come from their respective 'districts'. A few threads ago, somebody came up with the idea that the Reds and Blues (we've added the Whites) wore different amounts of colours depending on their allegiance so that's an idea we could bring back.

    In regards to the Chief Justice, we have to remember he only became the recognized arbiter of faith many decades into the regression (i think it might have even taken 4 centuries, I'll have to check my notes).
     
  17. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    What role do the Circuit Supervisors play?
     
  18. tehskyman Engineer for the money

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    I presume that they act as the local head of the church in a particular state and neighboring territories which do not have an ecclesiastic/district seat.
     
  19. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Well look at this map.

    [​IMG]

    Most of the Circuit Courts exist across multiple states. Additionally, there are multiple Districts for quite a few states.
     
  20. Richard Drummond Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps they just don't survive. Not all institutions have to survive. In fact it'd be unrealistic if they did.
     
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