Medieval America Mark III

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Flashman, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Good post, Kerguelen. I'd been thinking very much the same thing would end up happening to the Klan, since the South seems to have maintained its Southron and racist heritage, in light of the Stars-and-Bars being one of the flags on White's Piedmont map.
     
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  2. Kerguelen Prime Specimen

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    I thought that White wrote a post about race already. Didn't he say that the south began to shift towards a more egalitarian culture?
     
  3. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    He specifically said that it wasn't a case of racial harmony-- rather, the priomgeniture laws were adjusted so that rather than one drop of black blood makes you black, one law of white blood makes you white. So while effectively this means the society becomes integrated, it didn't actually do anything to address the South's past, and presumably if you're very dark skinned and lack the documentation to prove your pedigree, you're screwed.
     
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  4. TheByzantineOttoman Donor

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    I've noticed that the Atlas has virtually nothing about cultures in the Upper Mississippi River Valley (that is, from the Twin Cities, MN to Cairo, Illinois along the river). This confuses me, as it's a large area full of arable land in a section of the river roughly as long as the Nile in Egypt and much wider in terms of land that can be farmed, which means this place is going to be populated and important on a similar level to, say, Germany. I'll call these people Miwesens for now (as they'd consider themselves Midwesterners), though if anyone has a better name I'm all ears.

    [​IMG]

    This is at the very edge of the Great Plains, so it may be we want to wait to fully flesh it out, but I have a few ideas I'd like to throw out there and see what others think of them. For starters, I think Midwes, populated as it is by richer, educated farmers of German descent would be the perfect region to retain much of their religions- rather than some cult or old religion revived, the Midwesens would be Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian, or perhaps some united religion combining the three (however, it could just as likely go in the opposite direction, with a general related Protestant Christianity but thousands of individual sects). This Protestant Christianity would be much harsher than the modern liberal attitude, but would also gain elements of a culture of hospitality.

    Agriculture would obviously dominate, with cities being based off the trade and production of various cereal crops. This probably creates a relatively stratified society, with the people who control the most land having the most power. However, any peasant farmer who works on a good piece of land (i.e. most of the region) would be able to live a good life and rarely starve. The relatively short growing season means a long winter, but with the amount of farming going on food storage will solve that issue. This region will be difficult to invade in Winter, as will be internal wars.

    The Midwesens remind me a little of the Rus. They will not be nomadic, but will be very familiar with nomadic peoples, and probably still spend a decent chunk of their lives on horses. Sometimes they may suffer from nomadic conquests, though more than likely nomadic raiding will be focused on taking their foodstuffs and wealth in the fall, not conquest. Playing nomads against each other much like the Rus did is to be expected, as would a local ruler paying tribute to the cowboys so they either leave them alone or attack one of their enemies.

    They'd also have an interesting relationship with the people to the south; trade will flow down the Mississippi River after all. A United Kingdom of the Midwes will have a lot of resource to call upon and could surround itself by "tributary" nomadic states (like the Chinese, they may end up paying more to their tributaries than the other way around), dependent Northern States (I want to get to them later, they would be important and have natural resources) and vassal Southern States/conquests.

    These are just a couple of ideas I'm spitballing. I want to make sure this region isn't ignored like it was in the original.
     
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  5. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    White already described the region in the form of Iowa, one of the fer nations he formally described.
     
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  6. TheByzantineOttoman Donor

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    True, but a couple paragraphs still leaves a lot to be fleshed out, it's only part of the region, and it focuses more on temporary nomadic conquerors besides.
     
  7. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Sure, though any other polities would have to be in the "past" of the setting.

    I'm fairly certain it used to be the Commonwealth of Illinois-- if it had been small fiefs, it would've gotten eaten by Ohio.
     
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  8. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Updated OP.
     
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  9. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    I want to post something regarding Islamistan but I'm afraid I can't write something meaty enough for it.
     
  10. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Colorodo

    [​IMG]
    Aspen, the largest settlement in the region

    The land makes the man. This is a platitude that holds true on the vast and ungovernable Great Plains, it's true of the harsh winters of Laska, it's true of the accommodating weather of California, and it certainly holds true for the mountain valleys of the land known as Colorodo.

    Granted, the environment of Colorodo is perhaps not the worst in America. That honor would likely be bestowed upon Laska, the Great Basin or Sianola. True, it is very dry, but not the driest, and true, it can be very cold, but it is not the driest, not the coldest. What sets Colorodo apart from the rest of America is its terrain. High in the Rockies, the land is a fractured patchworks of valleys and glens, rivers and canyons, with mountains only inhabited by the hardiest of the mountain tribes. In many ways, it resembles the terrain of Afghanistan.

    So, if it is the land that makes the men, what manner of man is the Colorodoan?

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    The Colorodoans are a wild race, living in pueblo dwellings in valleys in cliff sides, harping back to the ancient Native inhabitants of the region. Unlike those first natives, they are not hunter-gatherers, at least not by the by: rather, they are subsistence farmers and shepherds primarily, and raiders when the opportunity presents itself. Ethnically, they are "white", with a not-insignificant amount of Latino, Native American, and Arab admixture, though they most closely resemble the Desereti.

    Despite this filial resemblance, they have little else in common. Practically all tribes are "common-sense" Christians - that is to say, vaguely Christian with a massive amount of syncreticism and abiblical nonsense. The degree to which a tribe incorporates Mormon, New Age, New Israelite or Islamic belief varies with their distance to the peoples that practice those belief. But, to be a true blue Colorodoan, you cannot identify with any of these groups over your identity as a Christian, and a Colorodoan.

    Colorodo sits at an intersection between worlds. To the north and west, the upright and serious Mormons march in their legions. To the south, the New Age loonbags and the vast empire of New Mexico. To the east, the Muslims of "Islamistan", and the Cowboys beyond. The Colorodoan identity is built upon their opposition and dislike of all outsider - the Mormon interlopers and missionaries, the water-grubbing Dineh, the thieving Cowboys, and worst of all the Muslims who, in their earliest days, stole the richest country of Colorodo in their Great Jihads.

    Their is no "Colorodoan state", no central organizing body or set of concords. People dwell in small villages and hamlets on the basis of kin and clan. Generally, they have a sheriff as their big-man, who is normally the baddest warrior in town. Of the villages, the only one of any particular note is Aspen, home to the eponymous Aspen clan.

    Aside from shepherding, raiding and farming, there is a minor minor industry in the gold, coal and silver of the mountains. But, all of these pale in comparison to the one central industry of the Colorodan Rockies: drugs.

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    A poppy field near the border with Kuluradu

    Just as in the mountains of the Kashmir, cannabis and poppies grow remarkably well. When the choice is given to a Colorodoan between growing a small surplus of corn or to be able to sell an enormously valuable cash crop, the choice is clear. Of course, opinions vary in the surrounding states as to this practice: though the Mormons have grown more lax on alcohol, marijuana is highly illegal, and opiates result in the death penalty. The Kuluradi will not tolerate its consumption within their borders, but they will happily allow it to be trafficked through their territory, by and large. The Pacific Northwest and, more majorly, New Mexico are welcome consumers, both believing it has some bearing on achieving enlightenment.

    The Sheriff of Aspen is moving to consolidate the opioid trade under his control, with Dineh backing. All the while, the Desereti march their soldiers to the border.
     
  11. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Map forthcoming

    The Dineh Confederacy

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    • System of Government: Hydraulic Empire
      • Head of State:
        • President, chosen by and from the sons of the previous President by the ruling dynastic family after a special ceremony
    • Population: 950,000
    • Religion: New Age
      • Totemic Symbol: Zia Sun

    New Mexico is a land at a crossroads. The three rivers, the four corners, and nigh-on a hundred tribes. The modern history of the region began just as the regression did. As air conditioners became less and less viable, more and more people moved out of the "Sun-Belt" for more amicable climes. Besides those few normal Anglos that hunkered down and remained, three groups were left behind: the Hispanics (whose migration slowed as the economy of the US did), the Natives (who had been in these lands since time immemorial and weren't going to move now), and, strangest of all, the New Agers.

    In the towns of Tumacacori, Arcosanti, Roswell and Sedona, strange groups had been gathering since the 1970s. Devoted to the esoteric, the otherworldly and the mystical, these so-called "New Agers" had little unifying between them but for a few loose concepts and a disdain for the modern world. They saw the coming return to a simpler time as a positive step on humanity's step towards enlightenment. And so it was that 50 years post-regression, a herald was issued forth from Sedona: the dawning of the Age of Aquarius was coming, and it would begin in the South West.

    The herald drew in New Agers from as far away as Cascadia and New England, communities packing themselves into wagons overnight to make the long arduous journey. The arrrival of fellow enlightened individuals was met with jubilations, leading to nearly a month of spiritual enlightenment and partying-hardy. And then they waited, and waited, and waited... until they finally realized that this may be more of a "I shall return soon" type-deal. They hunkered down, got to farming, and got to killing each other over the nuances of their faith.

    Meanwhile, the Southwest was a bloody war-zone. As the US folded, a variety of warlords attempted to re-establish government in their local area, while the Native Tribes rose up to re-claim their homelands. There were no real rules nor permanent alliances, just a Machievallian "every-man-for-himself" type deal. By far, the most powerful of the fiefs was the Navajo Nation, which had steadily expanded and absorbed other tribes as the Regression went on. Without a foothold on any of the three major rivers (the Gila, the Colorado, or the Rio Grande) or access to a major copper deposit (essential in making the bronze weapons that dominated the region), they would be unable to overrun the other war-lords.

    The tables would turn when Bill Cisneros, the half-Dineh New Age Colonel of Phoenix, struck a deal with the Navajo Council: he would provide them with weapons, he would make them mighty once again, and they would put him in power. And it worked - one by one, Two Sun, Las Cruces, Albuqurque and Santa Fe fell before the alliance of Dineh and Phoenix. On the Winter Solstice, Bill Cisneros was crowned Bill Cisneros I, President of the Dineh Confederacy of New Mexico and Arizona.

    Theoretically, the Confederation is just that - a confederacy, with local clans, tribes and towns granted some degree of autonomy. In fact, most local identities have been wiped out, melded into the greater New Mexican / Dineh whole. The only real regional identities left are those of the three rivers that make up the Confederacy, whose distance from each other has allowed them to develop seperately. Otherwise, however, political authority lies almost entirely with the President who resides in Splendid Albuqurque, who divides power to local "chieftans", who are in effect Nomarchs.

    In good times, the President is a despot of unparalleled power. The water-works and hydraulic infrastructure of New Mexico is more complex than any of the other two major hydraulic empires, giving him total control over life and death, his sovereignty only being challenged as local chieftans gain inordinate amounts of control over the Gila or the Colorado. The President is not only the military sovereign of the land, he is also the chief on spirituality, with Presidents being practically deified following their deaths. The power of the President allows him to commission massive monumental construction, most famously pyramids.

    The Confederacy faces few outside threats. The Californians would be (and have been) insane to launch an invasion against New Mexico. The control of the Colorado is in constant flux, and the local city-states are effectively client states, not nomes as on the Gila and the Grande. The Desereti are their major geopolitical rivals, both despising the other for their religion. The Broncos and Cowboy hordes to the east and south of the Rio Grande also pose something of a threat.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017 at 9:11 PM
  12. thetrollfaceking22 Well-Known Member

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    What area is being worked on right now?
     
  13. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    Both the West and the Great Plains are open.
     
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  14. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    It doesn't quite jive with some of the earlier posts, and not quite as fleshed out as I'd like it to be.
     
  15. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    How doesn't it jive with earlier posts? And could you help me flesh it out? That was all my brain could come up with.
     
  16. thestickfigure Well-Known Member

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    Read the entire thread so far. I'm glad that a new thread was created, since medieval america was one of the first threads I read on this site. But the thing is I'm confused whether this thread is a tongue-and-cheek bizzare worldbuilding tone, or a more a little crazy but has some seriousness kind of tone.
     
  17. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    The latter, moreso. I think I've done a fairly good job of throwing out some of the wilder notions, unless you can point me to something I've canonized that you take issue with.
     
  18. HonestAbe1809 Abraham Lincoln 2020

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    @Flashman I deleted my post regarding Vegas. Hopefully we can figure out a more realistic fate for that city ITTL.
     
  19. thestickfigure Well-Known Member

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    the only thing I have a problem with is how overly oriental the PNW is. As a Japanese person myself, I'm pretty sure Japanese influence is minimal given how far they are from each other. Also the star wars will most likely be a folk tale by the time of this era, so I don't think it will influence things as much as this thread tells so. These are my nitpicks, feel free to criticize.
     
  20. Flashman A Real Go-Getter

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    OK, I can see that to a certain extent, though I think it strikes a pretty good balance. I've always gotten a strong Hanseatic/Baltic vibe from the region myself with the merchant colonies. Now, there is going to be a certain amount of orientalization, for a number of reasons. Firstly, there's going to be a conscious effort by the Cascadians to orientalize: their religion is Buddhism as done by kale-eating hipsters, full of ostentation and borderline racist Orientalisms and oversimplification. The "more Asian than Asia" aesthetic is just part and parcel. Secondly, a lot of the East Asian Buddhists of California (around 500,000 of them as of writing) are going to be fleeing once Scientology takes control, and that's sure to make a demographic dent. And third, albeit most minorly, there probably will be some contact with Japan and China, as there is trans-pacific fishing and trading.

    Now, orientalization may get a little bit much in Columbia, though I think that's to a certain extent due to the nature of that country: it's a feudal warrior-based land with volcanic mountains. Which menas it's going to be orientalized both in its likely outcomes, and in the mind of the writer.

    Now, as to the "Star Wars": yes, this is absurdity, but I think it's all in good fun and essentially justifiable. Because really, "Star Wars" is the epitome of American Buddhist orientalism, and I think it makes sense that at some point the Cascadians would pick up on the similarities between this folk-tale and their form of Buddhism.

    And besides, wandering rock-and-roll Sith Ronin fighting for the rights of the Mormond serfdom against the Jedi Shogunate is just too much fun to
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017 at 6:47 PM