ME 262

I recently read The first and the last by galland and he makes a point abt the misuse of the ME 162 jet fighter. If it had been given priority and mass production in 1944, do u think this would turn the tide in the air war
 
I recently read The first and the last by galland and he makes a point abt the misuse of the ME 162 jet fighter. If it had been given priority and mass production in 1944, do u think this would turn the tide in the air war

Which one, the Me 162, the Me 163 or the Me 262? That's three different aircraft you know.

I believe Galland was complaining about the Me 262, and no, I don't think it would have turned the tide at all. The Me 162 WAS given all kinds of priority and it didn't accomplish much. It was too late to matter.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
No because they were running out of Oil. That and they didn't perform like they were supposed to due to the lack of rare metals. The Allies had also perfected the Art of killing them. Hitting them on the ground as they land and what not.
 
For that matter, what difference can an aircraft type make at this point in the war? Even if Germany is magically able to grab total air superiority they are about to be overwhelmed by sheer force on both fronts, and can at best hold up the advance a few more months with airstrikes and improved industrial output.
 
The Luftwaffe did churn out thousands of Me262s in the last year or so of the war, it was a very high priority since the Germans realised that only radical measures would be able to overcome the numerical imbalance against them.

Howver I recently heard that despite monthly production totals of say 600 Me262s the Luftwaffe only ever received 150 of them, the rest being lost during delivery flgights, destroyed on the ground intact or not having disparate major components actually assembled.

On top of that the Me262 fleet's (of nominally hundreds of aircraft on strength in late 1944/early 45) ability to generate the 'product' of air power - combat sorties - was woeful. The hundreds strong Me262 fleet never managed to generate 60 sorties in a single day; I think the best was 58 fighter-bomber sorties and 55 interception sorties on different days several months apart.

For the Me262 to make a difference in the war the engines would have to be ready earlier and be more resilient by virtue of better alloys in their construction. This would allow more sorties to be generated and better results obtained.

BTW Jets are a little eddy in the current of WW2 that I love, they're a fascinating topic!
 
the Problem with Me 262 were many

First was Hilter, who look on design of Jet-figher interceptor and ask "Can this Airplane drop Bombs ?"
Will Messerschmitt hesitate to say NO to Führer and so became the Me 262, the first Jet Fighter/Bomber in history.

another problem were the Zillion other Ideas to arm the Jet
again Hitler wanted a 50 mm cannon instal in nose of Me 262, so Göring not refuse Hitler wishes.
then was the Me 262 interceptors with rocket engine support for fast climb what used many recourses
and complet hare-brained idea to "Mistel" were unmanned Me 262 bomb were fly by other Me 262

then were lack of recouses for Jet engine who had reliability problem or reduce life span of 30 minutes.

Finally there insufficient experienced Pilot to fly the Me 262
young unexperienced Pilot were put in Jet fighters, who had go in first combat with veterans allies fighters
the first Me 262 was shot down by a P-51 Mustang because of this !
 
Isn't 21 threads and 29 posts an odd percentage?


Somebody using two tags? A more agressive less used one to start threads and another more "sensible" one to comment on them? Could be a good tactic for those who care for that kind of thing...
 
All that would have gotten the Luftwaffe was even more Me-262s parked besides runways and roads without engines, so I think Riain's got the right of it.

The Jumo engine's many development issues was one of the largest stumbling blocks to the 262's deployment. To fix it, you need more ready access to the materials needed to build the engines to the original spec so they don't have the service life of a crack-addled mayfly and don't catch fire if you look at them funny. Unless you can do that, then it won't matter at all how many airframes you've got, or what they're armed with, or if they can carry bombs or not.

Combine that with Stupid Jetpack Hitler, and well, you see what happens.
 
In one of Turtledove's Alternate Generals books a short story depicting a TL very much like this. Before he kills himself Ernst Udet convinces his successor to shift aircraft production largely to interceptors. This extends the war in the ETO until the hard stop of almost all WW2 ATLs in early August 1945 when Berlin gets wiped off the map by a bomb dropped from a single B-29.
 
In one of Turtledove's Alternate Generals books a short story depicting a TL very much like this. Before he kills himself Ernst Udet convinces his successor to shift aircraft production largely to interceptors. This extends the war in the ETO until the hard stop of almost all WW2 ATLs in early August 1945 when Berlin gets wiped off the map by a bomb dropped from a single B-29.

Yeah, the only problem with the "hard stop" is that if your postulating that earlier, better, and greater numbers of Me262 really does make a difference, than the single B-29 never gets near Berlin.

As to earlier, I doubt it: everybody (Germans, British, Americans, presumably the Russians) recognized the potential of jet fighters: building them so that they worked reliably was the problem. I recall reading that some of the Germans involved in the Me262 problem "bitching" that the Turks wouldn't sell them chrome ore and they therefore had to make due with inferior material.

Maybe in another timeline Turkey is a German ally like it was WW One??? That would produce a whole bunch of other events.
 
yup the Me 262 theme pop up regular in this form every year !

And deservedly gets squashed.

Hitler's stupidity notwithstanding, there is simply no way the Jumo 004 engines would have been made suitable for operational use much earlier than they were.

Once in the production pipeline, the problem wasn't the ability of the German aircraft industry to build lots of 262's but the ability of the Luftwaffe in late 1944 and 1945 to provide sufficient well-trained and experienced pilots to fly them.

Finally, the Me-262 was not a war winning plane as a fighter and was not enough superior to late war allied fighters like the P-51, P-47, or Tempest. The main advantage of its high speed was to avoid combat with allied fighters when attacking USAAF bombers. In fighter vs fighter combat, the 262's record is not all that great.

The Luftwaffe would have been better off with several thousand more Fw 190Ds.
 

Kongzilla

Banned
Even if the Germans do manage to get air superiortiy. Allied jet fighters will just out fight them. I beleive the British Meteor was up and running a few weeks before the Me-262. So either way they lose. Plus a fighter jet won't stop the red juggernaut.
 
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