McGoverning
- Thread starter Yes
- Start date
Ground control to Major @Yes, we have a problem here.
Robert Griffin was selected as GOP Senate minority whip in 1969, a job he held until 1977. Since he was a senator already, it would be difficult for him to run for another Senate seat. Perhaps, since his party switch came in OTL 1973, Don Riegle could decide to stay a Republican with that Hippeh Lovah in the White House and run against Levin for Hart's seat, which, OTL, he won in 1976. Most elegant solution, I think.
Robert Griffin was selected as GOP Senate minority whip in 1969, a job he held until 1977. Since he was a senator already, it would be difficult for him to run for another Senate seat. Perhaps, since his party switch came in OTL 1973, Don Riegle could decide to stay a Republican with that Hippeh Lovah in the White House and run against Levin for Hart's seat, which, OTL, he won in 1976. Most elegant solution, I think.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Something I only just (re-?) realized -- the 1974 Carnation Revolution in Portugal (of OTL) had a lot of knock off effects in the short term beyond its own small country. Depending on whether @Yes has it happen around the same time in his TL, it could still prove incredibly relevant to some of the things talked about before on this thread...
Yes to both, as and when they relate. During McGovern's '72 victory in Michigan, Frank Kelley beat Griffin narrowly. Bill Milliken then subbed Griffin back in, though with the consequent loss of seniority, to fill PHIL!'s seat when he (PHIL!) translated to the vice presidency. In '74, per Michigan election laws, Levin ganked Griffin in a special election for the balance of PHIL!'s term up through '76. But @wolverinethad you've raised the excellent point that we should keep an eye out for what Mr. Riegle gets up to...
John Farson
Banned
Man, you weren't kidding about this part. Putting myself into the position and worldview of these yahoos certainly made me feel soiled, especially as I at least partially belong to a group that would certainly be put up against the wall if they and their ilk ever had their way.
That said, thinking back to BlacKkKlansman was certainly a bit of an antidote to it, particularly this scene. Granted, the movie took some liberties with real life (being set during Nixon's presidency rather than during Carter's, like in reality, and Duke finding out about Stallworth far earlier than he really did), but I think it does a good job with its intention and I strongly recommend it.
Or him
You can't always get what you want. No, really. Sometimes you just can't.
-"Mr Scott... isn't this more a case of 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'?"
-"Well, it would be, yes, except for one vital fact: I am not a woman."
Indiana Beach Crow
Monthly Donor
As a Hoosier who didn't live through his era in the Senate but have met a lot who did, Birch Bayh fascinates me. He rode the razor's edge of (seemingly) of being being a safe boring white guy on the campaign trail, and then he was, for the time, a 'burn the ships' radical in the Senate when no one back home was paying attention. Then every campaign season he goes back to, for example, Russiaville (Roo-sha-vill), Indiana, quotes the exact price of a bushel of soybeans that day to every farmer, talks about how the crops are doing this year and loves doing it. The next day he's meeting with the IU chapter of the Young Democrats and talking about how Title IX was a good start but the Equal Rights Amendment is the real goal. He walked the walk and talked the talk in several different worlds, but eventually national trends did him in.
My favorite quote about Gibson (other than Vin Scully's "He pitches like he's double parked.") is the advice Hank Aaron gave to Dusty Baker about batting against Hoot:
"Don’t dig in against Bob Gibson, he'll knock you down. He'd knock down his own grandmother if she dared to challenge him. Don't stare at him, don't smile at him, don't talk to him. He doesn't like it. If you happen to hit a home run, don't run too slow, don't run too fast. If you happen to want to celebrate, get in the tunnel first. And if he hits you, don't charge the mound, because he's a Gold Glove boxer."
Dusty's seventeen game hit streak ended the same day.
Last edited:
Well, shit, I forgot about Frank. Does that mean no Michigan scanner law now? He was the driving force behind that as AG.
No worries - and, it’s possible that butterfly will flap, or flap rather differently in other hands at least.
I am utterly disgusted by your use of reversed colours, I will fight this fight to my death.
Honestly? I treat this as a novel I get from the monthly digest kinda thing, so I don’t really wanna dig in before things are done unlike a more traditional timeline format. It’s a little too flowery once in a while and, although I think I understand the why of it, I roundly dislike the lack of quotation marks for dialogue.
Yeah but that’s all nitpicking—this is a stunning series of chapters, the details (without going too far into navel gazing capital letters “literature”) of people dressed and eating alone sells me lol let alone the amazing in-depth details of people I’ve read about but not in enough cases (oh research) more than your excellent work.
I straight up think you should stop posting here, go finish this novel, and sell it.
Honestly? I treat this as a novel I get from the monthly digest kinda thing, so I don’t really wanna dig in before things are done unlike a more traditional timeline format. It’s a little too flowery once in a while and, although I think I understand the why of it, I roundly dislike the lack of quotation marks for dialogue.
Yeah but that’s all nitpicking—this is a stunning series of chapters, the details (without going too far into navel gazing capital letters “literature”) of people dressed and eating alone sells me lol let alone the amazing in-depth details of people I’ve read about but not in enough cases (oh research) more than your excellent work.
I straight up think you should stop posting here, go finish this novel, and sell it.
I’m way behind and not likely to catch up for a grip, but from the bottom of my heart, thank you for sequestering this beautiful content for these most anxious of two weeks. Blessed distraction!
Sitting here in the bosom of Western PA (where I have of late decamped with my own tattily-carpeted bags to meaningfully pull the lever) and looking at the contest you set up for my relevant senate seat. By god, you may have actually done it. The first time on this board I’ve seen a race in (arguably) the sixth party system where I believe I would have to vote for a Re....a Re....mm, the party of Lincoln.
The idea of Rizzo catching that ride out of Philly is just too nauseating, proactive steps would need to be taken. Glad to see him sidelined. (Also just trying to vocally badmouth Philly more often, so the locals don’t egg my house next Saturday (pass the Heinz/go Stillers.)
So we’ve got HST in a Yugo, the dynamic duo in a Pinto....If we can get maybe Bella Abzug and Betty Friedan in a Corvair, I think we might just have the seeds for an earlier and much more entertaining Cannonball Run franchise!
Sitting here in the bosom of Western PA (where I have of late decamped with my own tattily-carpeted bags to meaningfully pull the lever) and looking at the contest you set up for my relevant senate seat. By god, you may have actually done it. The first time on this board I’ve seen a race in (arguably) the sixth party system where I believe I would have to vote for a Re....a Re....mm, the party of Lincoln.
The idea of Rizzo catching that ride out of Philly is just too nauseating, proactive steps would need to be taken. Glad to see him sidelined. (Also just trying to vocally badmouth Philly more often, so the locals don’t egg my house next Saturday (pass the Heinz/go Stillers.)
So we’ve got HST in a Yugo, the dynamic duo in a Pinto....If we can get maybe Bella Abzug and Betty Friedan in a Corvair, I think we might just have the seeds for an earlier and much more entertaining Cannonball Run franchise!
Thank you very kindly, and great to hear from you.
Don't tempt me
😎 
One out of one Gonzo Journalists drives this sweet-ridin' Serbo-Croatian technology! Ride the 101, for the way "Yu" go!
"Ah call her the Ratfuckermobile, Karl. Hop on in."
This is in part a belated reply to an excellent question from @mr1940s. It is also a chance to do one of the things I hope this thread does at least sometimes, which is share useful resoruces for the study of this era in its varied aspects and elements. In this case, a few of the macroeconomic sources I've used to glean a picture of OTL so I can re-engineer TTL with some level of granular clarity. In addition to this trio I very, very much recommend the gorgeous, prolific, and outstanding resources in the St. Louis Fed's archive of PDF documents that are a godsend for an AHer (or mainline historian, for that matter) on economic history. These are :
A helpful PDF of an out-of-print volume by (PDF also provided by) the National Bureau of Economic Research. Excellent statistical blow-by-blow of 1974-76:
A volume of articles collected in '78 by the Boston Fed titled After the Phillips Curve, one of the early efforts to get both a dialogue and a grip going on stagflation (I don't endorse any specific argument made here, it's useful as a glimpse of how economists in that moment tried to reckon with the Seventies):
And one of the earliest assessments (rather bland in its own way but some useful statistics) about the mess in '74, done by Arthur Okun (he of the Misery Index):
You will note Okun's piece exists here as a PDF from the archives of the Brookings Institution. That may be my favorite fact about it.
A helpful PDF of an out-of-print volume by (PDF also provided by) the National Bureau of Economic Research. Excellent statistical blow-by-blow of 1974-76:
A volume of articles collected in '78 by the Boston Fed titled After the Phillips Curve, one of the early efforts to get both a dialogue and a grip going on stagflation (I don't endorse any specific argument made here, it's useful as a glimpse of how economists in that moment tried to reckon with the Seventies):
And one of the earliest assessments (rather bland in its own way but some useful statistics) about the mess in '74, done by Arthur Okun (he of the Misery Index):
You will note Okun's piece exists here as a PDF from the archives of the Brookings Institution. That may be my favorite fact about it.
Something I wanted to discuss with you guys is the next potential running mate for George McGovern since Phill Hart will probably step down before the election
Now someone posted Brendan Byrne as a running mate which seemed alright since he's an Irish Catholic from New Jersey but what bother's me is the fact he hasn't been in the job for long as governor but at least he would be fresh on the minds of the people of New Jersey that voted for him
But someone else that caught mind was John J. Gilligan since he won the recent election against Jim Rhodes and is currently serving his second term since he's also and Irish Catholic from an important state.
But I don't know what do you guys think is there someone better to run along side McGovern?
Now someone posted Brendan Byrne as a running mate which seemed alright since he's an Irish Catholic from New Jersey but what bother's me is the fact he hasn't been in the job for long as governor but at least he would be fresh on the minds of the people of New Jersey that voted for him
But someone else that caught mind was John J. Gilligan since he won the recent election against Jim Rhodes and is currently serving his second term since he's also and Irish Catholic from an important state.
But I don't know what do you guys think is there someone better to run along side McGovern?
McGoverning: Additional Coming Redactions, or, Cabinetry in English Walnut
On the hallowed principle that you can't tell the players without a scorecard, and as a taster for the next couple of chapters up in the batting order, have this classically trained bit of AH.com goodness... classy-foreign-import Cabinetry!
Lib-Lab Coalition Government (aka Third Wilson Ministry) as of 1974
Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury, and Minister for Civil Service: Harold Wilson
Lord Chancellor: Elwyn Jones, Lord Elwyn-Jones
Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons: Roy Jenkins
First Secretary of State and Home Secretary: James Callaghan (keep your friends close and your Callaghans closer)
Secretary of State for Energy: Tony Benn
Secretary of State for Environment: Merlyn Rees
Secretary of State for Scotland: David Steel
Secretary of State for Wales: John Morris
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Roy Mason
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Judith Hart
Paymaster General: Edmund Dell
Attorney General: Peter Archer
Lib-Lab Coalition Government (aka Third Wilson Ministry) as of 1974
Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury, and Minister for Civil Service: Harold Wilson
Minister of State, Civil Service Department: Robert Sheldon
Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Lords: Ed Short, Lord Short (butterflies flap and Our Ed gets a gong at New Year's '74)Lord Chancellor: Elwyn Jones, Lord Elwyn-Jones
Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons: Roy Jenkins
First Secretary of State and Home Secretary: James Callaghan (keep your friends close and your Callaghans closer)
Ministers of State for Home Affairs: Brynmor John, Frank Judd
Chancellor of the Exchequer: Denis HealeyChief Secretary to the Treasury: John Silkin
Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury: Roy Hattersley
Financial Secretary to the Treasury: Emlyn Hooson
Foreign Secretary: Jeremy ThorpeMinister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs: Fred Mulley
Minister for Overseas Development: Bob Mellish
Secretary of State for Defence: Anthony CroslandMinister of State for Defence: Bill Rogers
Secretary of State for Trade and Industry: Peter Shore (wouldn't be a Wilson government without a bureaucratic reorganization...)Ministers of State for Trade and Industry: Harold Lever, Eric Heffer (sometimes 'Arold does like to create chaos)
Secretary of State for Health and Social Services: Barbara CastleMinister of State for Health and Social Services: Dr. David Owen
Secretary of State for Employment: Michael FootSecretary of State for Energy: Tony Benn
Minister of State for Energy: Alan Beith (the Seventies Libs were surprisingly protectionist on North Sea Oil so this may not be as contentious as it might otherwise)
Secretary of State for Agriculture, Food, & Fisheries: Fred PeartSecretary of State for Environment: Merlyn Rees
Minister for Transport: Eric Varley
Minister for Planning and Local Government: Reg Prentice
Secretary of State for Education and Science: Shirley WilliamsSecretary of State for Scotland: David Steel
Secretary of State for Wales: John Morris
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland: Roy Mason
Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Judith Hart
Paymaster General: Edmund Dell
Attorney General: Peter Archer
Last edited:
When you mentioned railroads in the second to last update, I recommend you check out this post. Some electrification would be a good idea for industry and for the environment: https://ctr.trains.com/railroad-reference/operations/2001/01/railroad-electrification-proposals