McGoverning

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by Yes, Jan 2, 2018.

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  1. wolverinethad InfoSec for America

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    That book was such an eye opener. I've been studying nuclear policy and weapons for close to a decade, and Good God, we came so close so many times to blowing ourselves up without the help of Comrades Khrushchev and Brezhnev.

    Some other notes for @Yes And Company (a perfect 70s band name if I ever heard one):

    • For trying to stand against the tide of bigger, more destructive nuclear weapons, this nation crucified Robert J. Oppenheimer, without we'd never have them to begin with, ruining his career and reputation.
    • I think the Vanguard missile failure diminished the Navy in Ike's eyes, and didn't help them at a crucial stage of the debates.
    • Ike's absolute failure to use his standing to stop this madness is an act of moral cowardice on the level of his failure to defend George Marshall against Joe McCarthy.
    • That South Park meme for SAC's planning staff made me nearly choke laughing.
    • Thomas Power exclusively reigns over the fourth circle of Hell.
    • One great source I used for writing my JFK/LBJ short story was the declassified early 1960s SIOPs (thanks, National Security Archive, you brilliant boffins!)
    • And finally, the masterstroke of the insanity--THIS. Project Pluto, the SLAM missile, a nuclear-powered ramjet that would dump 16 H-bombs on its targets and then fly around endlessly, sending radiation spewing from its unshielded reactor. Here's the grinning master behind this perpetual motion machine of Death, Ted Merkle. Ted here found out he had incurable liver cancer when the program was finally, mercifully cancelled, so he made one good contribution to humanity. He built the first working version of a CT scanner to study his own liver.
      [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  2. wolverinethad InfoSec for America

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  3. Electric Monk Does Your Believing For You

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    Yo Overkill is fantastic and I'm not just saying that because of the closing line. A sad and cogent coverage of the issue @Yes that if anything underplays Rosenberg's talent (dudettes he would have rocked alternate history hard, you can see it in the way he lays out the roads not travelled)—I now very very much want to see a timeline where SAC gets screwed in the 1950s and the Alternative Option wins out.

    Deeply underrated on this board for a dude that could have been Mayor of D.C. and maybe more….
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  4. John Fredrick Parker Donor

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    So where does the debate surrounding “tactical” nuclear weapons fit into all this? As I recall, Cabinet officials were pushing for their use as late as 1959, though Eisenhower was firmly of the mind that developing atomic weapons to be used against enemy infantry in open battle was not a good idea.
     
  5. wolverinethad InfoSec for America

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    "Firmly against it."

    And yet, the 1950s saw development and deployment of:
    "Honest John"--15 mile range nuclear cruise missile
    MGM-5 "Corporal" nuclear cruise missiles for 75-mile range
    M65 nuclear artillery cannon, 10 km range
    W23 battleship nuclear cannon shells for the 16 inch guns.

    Just saying, he wasn't opposed enough to stop it.
     
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  6. John Fredrick Parker Donor

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    @Yes Quick question - has the Second Cod War been affected at all? Any plans for the Third?
     
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  7. King of the Uzbeks Charles Curtis is my Baby Daddy

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    Clearly the butterflies end up with Iceland withdrawing from NATO and joining the Warsaw pack.
     
  8. Yes Safe, Efficient Airship Travel Since 1972

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    V I K I N G J U C H E

    But really, we'll see a brief glimpse, maybe two, in an upcoming chapter (no really, upcoming, if you numbered the next chapter as 1 it would be 3 in that sequence.)
     
  9. wolverinethad InfoSec for America

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    The fact that something called the Cod Wars existed is testament to the fact that history does indeed have a sense of humor.
     
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  10. Josephus Well-Known Member

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    I hope they ended in a Cod peace.
     
  11. wolverinethad InfoSec for America

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    And may the prisoners of this war be Cod-dled.
     
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  12. Yes Safe, Efficient Airship Travel Since 1972

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    If we're talking about what British school exams would call "special studies" of this particular conflict, there's always the underappreciated role of double agents aboard British and Icelandic fishing boats, immortalized by the classic novel The Spy Who Came In With the Cod...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  13. Dathi THorfinnsson Daði Þorfinnsson

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    And the various literary works are
    ...
    Cod-pieces
     
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  14. rick007 Well-Known Member

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    For the love of Cod....can we please move onto some fin else?
     
  15. Bomster Who is the spiciest memelord?

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    I swear to cod.
     
  16. Electric Monk Does Your Believing For You

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    No Cods Club

    This really does seem like the best place to ask given the recent SALT talks, I found via a free library The Star Wars History From Deterrence to Defence: The American Strategic Debate, Michael Charlton; it’s a rather slim 23 person oral history of the title.

    Anybody read it? Good, bad, self-serving? If not I’ll report back!
     
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  17. Expat Monthly Donor

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    Guys, we're floundering here.
     
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  18. DocEssEnn Member

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    I'm beginning to feel like this entire timeline has just been a red herring to get us to the fish puns.
     
  19. CountDVB Dual Emperor of the Aztech and Maychanical Empires

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    I fish we would stop and get back to McGoverning with Hart here
     
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  20. Yes Safe, Efficient Airship Travel Since 1972

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    Do! That's actually a new one on me source-wise and I'm always up for more juicy details about how Edward Teller's snake oil became Saint Ronnie's idee fixe.
     
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