Maximum Victory of the Grand Alliance

What would a realistic crushing defeat for the Bourbons in the War of the Spanish Succession look like? Given the relatively narrow unity of interests of the Grand Alliance and the expense of the war, France ought to be able to end the war with most of its power intact if the Bourbons give up on their Spanish ambitions, but what else might the members of the Grand Alliance seek to gain at the expense of France and Spain?
 
What would a realistic crushing defeat for the Bourbons in the War of the Spanish Succession look like? Given the relatively narrow unity of interests of the Grand Alliance and the expense of the war, France ought to be able to end the war with most of its power intact if the Bourbons give up on their Spanish ambitions, but what else might the members of the Grand Alliance seek to gain at the expense of France and Spain?

Well, assuming that the Allies do not insist on making Louis XIV use his own army to drive out his own grandson, and peace breaks out in 1709, here are the results.

At a minimum...

French borders would revert back to 1648. Louis will provide money to drive out his grandson.

Archduke Charles become Charles III of Spain.

Basically everything that Louis XIV ever gained would be lost.

Of course, if Joseph I dies in 1711, Charles III would be Emperor Charles VI, resurrecting the empire of Charles V.

With all powers exhausted because of 20 years of war, I don't think any general war would break out over this.
 
If ArchDuke Charles will became the Holy Roman Emperor nobody will want him anymore as King of Spain so Joseph I need to have a son
 
If ArchDuke Charles will became the Holy Roman Emperor nobody will want him anymore as King of Spain so Joseph I need to have a son

But by the time Joseph I would die, Charles III is already of Spain in the most likely scenario (The Allies winning in 1709). And the German electors would have no qualms of electing a Spanish king as Emperor one more time.
 
But by the time Joseph I would die, Charles III is already of Spain in the most likely scenario (The Allies winning in 1709). And the German electors would have no qualms of electing a Spanish king as Emperor one more time.
Is plausible who after a victory of the Allies in 1709, Emperor Joseph I will accept to reintegrate the Electors of Bavaria (Maximilian II Emanuel) and Cologne (Max's brother Archbishop Joseph Clemens) in the group of the Imperial electors (from which they were excluded the yaer before)? Plus we can have Joseph live 4/5 years longer because butterflies? I am thinking to a way in which Charles III of Spain will inhereit only the Austrian lands after his brother's death while Hungary and Bohemia will go to Joseph's eldest daughter Maria Josepha married to Max's eldest son Karl Albrecht of Bavaria (Aka the OTL Emperor Charles VII, husband of Josepha's younger sister Maria Amalia). In April 1715 Karl would be 18 (minimum age for being elected HRE) and Maria Josepha 15 (maybe they had married the previous year). Butterflies and the fact who Joseph I had no son would make the allies amenable to the idea of securing at least Hungary and Bohemia for Joseph's daughters and and engagement (or a full child wedding) between Josepha and Karl would have been sign of a reconciliation between Bavaria and Austria.
Reintegrating Bavaria and Cologne between the elector would give us a nine members electoral college (with the Bohemian vote in the hands of Maria Josepha or her husband Karl Albert) who would elect as Holy Roman Emperor: in 1711 Maximilian Emanuel as Maximilian III Emanuel because Karl was still too young or in 1715 directly Karl Albert as Charles VI Albert...

ATL electoral college
  • Archbishop elector of Mainz
  • Archbishop elector of Trier
  • Archbishop elector of Cologne
  • King/Queen elector of Bohemia
  • Prince elector of Bavaria
  • Prince elector of Saxony
  • Prince elector of Brandenburg
  • Prince elector of the Electoral Palatinate
  • Prince elector of Brunswick-Lüneburg
 
Well, assuming that the Allies do not insist on making Louis XIV use his own army to drive out his own grandson, and peace breaks out in 1709, here are the results.

At a minimum...

French borders would revert back to 1648. Louis will provide money to drive out his grandson.

Archduke Charles become Charles III of Spain.

Basically everything that Louis XIV ever gained would be lost.

Of course, if Joseph I dies in 1711, Charles III would be Emperor Charles VI, resurrecting the empire of Charles V.

With all powers exhausted because of 20 years of war, I don't think any general war would break out over this.

Would Britain and the Dutch not want some colonial concessions (from either France or Spain) as a means of offsetting the cost of the war, or would be made up another way?

The Dutch presumably would be restored in their control of the fortresses in the Southern Netherlands, but if the Habsburgs are making other gains from France in Artois, Alsace, France-Comte, and Spanish Empire itself, might the Dutch seek concession of portions of the southern Netherlands to them, up to and including Antwerp? If the Republic is already paying to garrison the territory, it might as well govern the land as well for offsetting tax and commerce revenues. Besides that, Britain and the Dutch presumably would want to put themselves in a position of strength to counterbalance the risks of a re-emergence of the greater Habsburg Empire.
 
Would Britain and the Dutch not want some colonial concessions (from either France or Spain) as a means of offsetting the cost of the war, or would be made up another way?

The Dutch presumably would be restored in their control of the fortresses in the Southern Netherlands, but if the Habsburgs are making other gains from France in Artois, Alsace, France-Comte, and Spanish Empire itself, might the Dutch seek concession of portions of the southern Netherlands to them, up to and including Antwerp? If the Republic is already paying to garrison the territory, it might as well govern the land as well for offsetting tax and commerce revenues. Besides that, Britain and the Dutch presumably would want to put themselves in a position of strength to counterbalance the risks of a re-emergence of the greater Habsburg Empire.
No way the Ducht will get anything as likely either Anjou will get Naples or France will get Netherlands or both as compensation (like OTL Austria received Milan, Spanish Netherlands and Naples in exchange of the renounce to the Spanish crown)
 
Top