Maximum Size of A Chinese Empire before 400 AD?
I have some doubts about Manchuria.There are a lot of nomads there.
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Maybe they could have become vassals of a Chinese Empire if ancient China got it's shit together and produced a good fighting force. If that happened, the Xiongnu could easily be defeated, and Manchuria would be easy to take. I was thinking about something along the lines of this, albeit limited to the military.
(English readers: this)
A Chinese Dynasty could have Sinicized Dai Viet if it played its cards right. Maybe it could even have went on to conquer Cambodia. Would have been very much like what Germania was to Rome though.
Tibet also comes to mind as well. Though, wasn't China more interested in Vassal States and tribute over true territorial expansion?
IMHO that's mainly the later stages. For example in the Han dynasty, a relatively early dynasty, when the Han found that Koreans were engaged in trade with the Xiongnu, they went on to conquer them, not vassalize them.
Tibet is too far and on high mountains. The dynasties of the time couldn't have reached it. Border tribes maybe would have paid lip service, but that's about it.
Ah, I see. Perhaps stretching into Central Asia, then? I'd suggest India but mountains are in the way again.
I do believe from what I have heard that the utmost impediment of Chinese expansion into Tibet would be altitude sickness.
With the added advantage that back in the day, Japan was heavily influenced by China, not so for the Celtii in Britain when the Romans came. An expedition from Korea could be compared to the English Channel in the broad sense.
... Wow that's reversed.
... Wow that's reversed.
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The Han Dynasty had significant portions of Korea, and hegemony over the peninsula - it also had a significant amount of southern Manchuria. The Han Dynasty also established significant control over central asia, with allies as far west as the Caspian. It didn't last because central governance collapsed, sparking a civil war that lasted for over a century that resulted in near complete demographic collapse that would soon precipitate in the rise of northern dynasties based in immigrant ethnic groups that were invited into northern China in order to offset the demographic decline. How far the demographics collapsed is up to debate, but the decline of the empire had little to do with its size.
Not very; Japan was densely populated. I don't think China would be able to pull off an invasion, it would require quite a large expansion of the military both naval and on land. Maybe they could single off one of the smaller islands like Kyushu and Shikoku but even that would require a lot of resources to mitigate a rebellion which would be exacerbated by the fact it was over seas. And plus, what would the chinese have to gain from these new lands anyway? If anything they would probaly just establish some tributaries.
An interesting butterfly of this is that this would likely cause the Pro-Chinese Heian culture in Japan to never rise which could mean Japan had a lot less Chinese characteristics-- unless the Chinese occupation somehow surpassed the effect of the Heian culture.
We are talking about pre-400 Japan right?IIRC,depending on the time,Japan wasn't actually united.As for what China has to gain,gold,silver and copper I guess.But yeah,trying to conquer a place so far probably isn't feasible.
I doesn't really have to be the Han dynasty. How would a Qi-unified China which is more focused on the east (producing continent-sized butterflies) fare? More eastwards expansion and a stronger Chinese navy?
I might be wrong here, but didn't Japan really start to be influenced by China after the Han?
Yes you'd be correct-- but it's likely that the people inhabiting at the island would more or less unite against their common foe. Or perhaps even align with the Chinese, albeit that is less likely. As for gold, silver and copper China has more gold and copper than Japan ever could have, plus those resources are generally found on the Home Island. Silver however may be a good enough resource. Regardless of the difficulty and purpose of occupying Japan I think we can all agree that pre 400 China just doesn't have the logistics to conquer and hold on to Japan.
Wouldn't a Qi-unified China still try to place the capital somewhere in the center e.g. Luoyang?