Maximum Japanese 1905 gains

Alex, is that really you, from the now defunct soc.history.what-if in Google groups? I have a feeling we might get along a bit better on this highly moderated site.

Would you care to elaborate ever so slightly on why indemnity was "out of the question as a matter of principle"? I suspect I'm not the only one who hasn't the slightest idea what you're talking about.

Even an article on Wiki (I don't expect people reading Witte's Memoirs) it is made quite clear: paying indemnity was considered unacceptable for Russia's prestige as a Great Power.

After all, the Japanese had won the war, it had been very expensive, and, they needed the money.

Japanese won the war at sea, which was unpleasant but not critical for Russia. On land, after Mukden, there was a stalemate but Russian army was getting serious reinforcements (4 fresh divisions arrived only during the talks in Portsmouth). The fighting was still well outside the Russian Empire and could keep going but Japan could not afford this to happen just because it was running out of money.


And, they were certainly most displeased that they didn't receive an indemnity.

Well, it was their problem, wasn't it? Why anybody else should be sympathetic to it?

Possibly, if you'd been around at the time, you could have clarified the issue for the Japanese, as you can for us now. Obviously, the French paid an indemnity after the Franco-Prussian War,

Even a remote familiarity with the issue would tell you that situation was quite different for France.

and the Germans paid, for a time, an indemnity after World War One.

One more wrong analogy: in 1918 Germany capitulated and you can easily figure out the differences in the details.

So, if you would be so kind as to enlighten us,

Trying to "enlighten" you is a patent waste of time and I was not aware that you are a royalty, which would explain using plural while referencing yourself.

do tell us why an indemnity was out of the question as a matter of principle, in this case of the Russo-Japanese War, specifically, and why it wasn't simply a matter of Teddy Roosevelt being a totally racist sleaze when he brokered the Treaty of Portsmouth.

You really should get easier on your favorite racist/fascist ideas. When Japanese started insisting on the indemnity, Russian delegation started packing. Japan needed peace at least as much as Russia and the rest is history. Russia did not pay any indemnity after the Crimean War when it was defeated on its own territory and could not continue fighting.
 
The Japanese sent people to check out northern Sakhalin. They didn't like it, didn't want it. I doubt they would want Kamchatka either, though they might come up in political horsetrading.

In the XIX Japanese had claim for all Sakhalin but later ceded it to Russia while receiving (AFAIK) the fishing rights and Kuril Islands, including the rights for the fishing bases on the (Southern, IIRC) coast, which was the only thing Sakhalin was good for at that time. In the late XIX Russia created a penal colony in its northern part and that was pretty much it all the way to well into XX century when the oil was discovered. IIRC, Japan either got from the Soviets license on its extraction or at least was getting it from the Northern (Soviet) part even during the WWII.

During the RJW Japan occupied Sakhalin (hence the "trading") but not Kamchatka so it hardly could ask for it and why would it even need it after receiving Southern Manchuria, free hand in Korea and a ready railroad?
 
What I don't get is why they took only half of Sakhalin. Can't they just have demanded the whole island?

At some point Russian delegation offered them the whole island on condition that this would kill an indemnity issue. Japanese delegation refused and Russians started packing. Combination of their resolution to renew the war (which Japan could not afford) over this issue together with the information about about significant reinforcements arriving to the Russian army forced Japanese to remove the indemnity and agree to half of Sakhalin (where, as I understand, they had their fishing bases even when Russia owned it). The only thing in the Northern Sakhalin worth noticing was Russian penal colony and Japanese probably were not too eager to get it. :)

As for the American part of the story, initially both TR and American public in general were, more or less sympathetic to Japan. However, combination of what looked as Japanese arrogance (their ambassador and his staff had been extremely "wooden" in their attitudes) and Witte's "charm offensive" produced a shift in the attitude, especially taking into an account that Japan's requests DID look excessive (status of the "Great Power" had been taken seriously at that time). After all, TR was supposed to be a mediator, which means a reasonably even-handed broker, not an active agent of one of the sides. IIRC, splitting Sakhalin was his idea.
 
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