Maximilian's legacy: Interwar and Post World War 2

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by George Myles Gibson, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Now thats more like it, the sunken ship will took alot of time to salvage and this salvage effort would have been hampered repeatedly by Allies air raids that by the end, its not even worth it.

    For the battle of Midway, its the same like OTL, the newly deployed Mexican carrier fleet from their homeland was outnumbered by the larger Japanese Kido Butai by one ship but managed to sunk all four carriers thanks to the stratetic mistake on the Japanese part.
     
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  2. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    However, if you want to spice things up abit, let Midway be another Japanese pyrrhic victory, with the Mexicans lost two carriers and has to retreat, but give the Japanese a bloody nose as they also got two sunken carriers and way too many air crews lost in the battle.
     
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  3. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Another thing, if the Mexicans win then Japan will blame the United States for helping them and will seek retaliation, which could spark the United States's entrance to the war.
     
  4. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Anything else that interested you the Balkans, the white army, the Burma campaign?
     
  5. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Well on that, you have to mention the Oil embargo on Japan after the invasion of Indochina or the Japanese attempts at funding the Philippines Katipunan independence movement against the US authorities in Philippines.

    Burma is basically a lost cause for the German by this point, the Allies right now were in full retreat to German New Guineas and Carolines.

    Also regarding assisting the White Army invading Russia would be a an impossible task considering previous historical failures. Surely you can capture the SSRs surrounded Mother Russia but the Core of the SU will be a tough SoB to wrestle with.

    This means you will have to break the Russian bear morale by using late war strategic nuclear weapons, because an invasion would only strengthen their resolve and Russian Rasputista would doom any attempts at making further progress in capturing it.
     
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  6. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    So for the Axis ITTL, Japan and Russia are the two that you will definitely need to use nukes on, invasions on their homelands are both costly and difficult to maintain supply lines as their defense had already strengthened and the people will fight to the death against the foreign invaders.
     
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  7. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    You mean like Mongolia and become the Mad Baron 2.0? Second, so Vladivostok is big no no?
     
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  8. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much yeah, a joint pincer attack through the Balkans and from the East will keep the USSR busy but its defense is still firm. Hence the Nuke option on Moscow is a must if you want to force them to surrender.
     
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  9. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    The Balkans is it's own nightmare right now, really it's own war like the Second Serbo Bulgarian War and Third Balkan war.
     
  10. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Also ITTL, the Soviet Navy is alot stronger than its OTL one because they were economically independent from the world so they would prob had a strong military but fielded with incompetent officers (damn you Stalin)

    For the capital ships of the Soviet Fleet, the Soviet at this stage only managed to construct four new ships to supplement their three obsolete WW1 era Gangut class dreadnoughts. They also dont have any carriers either.

    First of, the Kronshtadt class battlecruisers, consists of Kronshtadt and Sevastopol. These ships were armed with high velocity guns but had a rather weak protection as they were meant to be cruiser killers and avoid fighting larger enemy battleships. Later on you can have these ships modified with 380mm guns from their French allies to increase firepower against capital ships. (Nazi German supports ITTL doesnt exists so France is the best substitute for this)
    ABC68749-A3BD-4424-A8B4-73E4D347AF4D.jpeg
    B66AE750-9EEB-41AC-B5E8-0C68E5B42C95.gif
    Original plan and illustration for Kronshtadt with 305mm HV guns

    And here are the Kronshtadt refitted with 380mm guns
    E5FB4D22-E54F-4495-B89A-F3D98116402F.jpeg
    C7E2E715-E897-4F41-8E90-6205BC99F946.jpeg

    For the Soviet Navy modern battleships, the Sovetsky Soyuz are the obvious choice. They had thicker armor than the Yamato and armed with HV 406mm guns, however these ships OTL suffered from poor quality of the alloys used on their armor and unreliable shells in their guns as this is one of the few USSR attempt at building larger battleships.
    3CED181E-480F-4B47-89DC-FEBCD56DEC25.jpeg
    Model of the SSoyuz battleship
    FEE80260-C739-4360-8809-AB6EF9205CD0.jpeg What it would looks like completed.
     
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  11. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    That got me thinking: let say suppose that if the New White Army takes control of Mongolia can you imagine the hell that Stalin would unleash not only on them but on the entire population, including the army like example: Georgy Zhukov served within the Imperial Russian Army back in the Weltkrieg, what if Stalin conducts a even worst purge on anyone that even served in the Russian army in the Weltkrieg?
     
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  12. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps could be used as TTL equivalent of the Great Purge that crippled the SU military in Barbarossa OTL. And just to add more insults to injury, many of them are now defecting back to the White Army after hearing that they wont be persecuted by the former Tsar and the Whites would guaranteed their safety against Stalin megalomania and paranoia.

    Other factor you can use to get more help is by having Mexican Empire pressuring the Romanovs into pardoning the former revolutionaries whom now had defected to the Whites for their previous atrocities against the Romanovs for things like, the massacre of Tsar Michael and his family in 1918 after Nicholas II abdicated and fleed with his own family departed for England. (as Nicholas II and his family has fled, they put the blame is on Grand Duke Michael and his family instead)

    You can also have this as the personal vendetta of the Romanovs-in-exile, to make the Bolsheviks pay for what they have done to the Grand Duke and his family in Russia.
     
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  13. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Hopefully by 11:00 I will have the Battle of Ceylon finished and I hope so far everyone has been enjoying this.
     
  14. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Additionally for the Stalin Great Purge, you can also have it be Stalin gotten infuriated at his officers for their failed offensive against the Austrians and Germans in the West and the fact that they criticized him on his mishandling of the Red Army in the campaign.

    Other than that, I think the Red Army is still doing quite well in the Balkans against the Ottoman as the Ottoman military, despite being reformed, still had too much inept conservative and incompetent aristocrats taking command of their military. Not only that but the Balkan Slavs were actually celebrating them as the saviors from the repressive Ottoman rulers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
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  15. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Speaking of Ottomans, how do you think the Three way war between Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire vs Greece and Serbia is going to go?

    And for clarification the Ottomans are in the Caucasus mountains along with the Persians not in the Balkans.
     
  16. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    it really depending on their military capabilities but my bet is that Greece gonna beat the Ottoman again since the Ottoman leadership are not exactly that great, coupled with the fact that cooperation with an Orthodox nation like Bulgaria makes them feel uneasy so the two overall have pretty mixed results.

    But no worries, they will definitely crush Serbia, thats for certain. Greece is gonna be the thorn in the sides however.
     
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  17. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    On June 4, 1941 the Main Mexican Fleet including, the Combined Fleet that left Papua New Guinea after repairs and refueling, the Indian Imperial Navy, and the new three fleet carriers: Alamo, Independencia, and Emperatriz under the command of Admiral Heriberto Jara Corona. So in total the Allied Fleet had 3 fleet carriers, 7 cruisers, 7 light cruisers, 16 destroyers, and 233 planes, while on Ceylon air command there were back up 130 Stuka dive bombers.

    220px-Jara_corona (1).jpg Admiral Jara Corona

    The Japanese Combined Fleet under the control of Admirals Nagumo and Kondō Nobutake had the strength of 4 fleet carriers, 2 battleships, 2 heavy cruisers, 12 destroyers, and 248 planes. Along with 2 heavy cruisers and 2 destroyers that supposed into enter the battle if things go wrong.

    220px-Vizeadmiral_Nobutake_Kondo.jpg Admiral Kondō

    On June 4 the battle begun at 4:30 P.M. when Admiral Nagumo launched his attack on the island base itself with Aichi and Nakajima dive bombers escorted by Zero fighters, however the Japanese reconnaissance was useless in the poor weather and because of this they failed to notice the Mexican battleships. Ceylon's radar picked up the enemy formations and fighters were scrambled and unescorted bombers went off to attacked the Japanese carriers while the fighters stayed back to protect the base.

    images (2).jpeg Ceylon

    The Japanese bombers heavily damaged the base, but they themselves in turn were torn to shreds from the new Mexican wildcat fighters and accurate anti-aircraft fire so of the 110 Japanese aircraft used in the attack on Ceylon base: 30 were destroyed and damaged and the base was still functional and able to refuel planes. Japanese reports were unsatisfactory and requested another attack to neutralize the base. Meanwhile Mexican Douglas Dauntless dive bombers began to attack the Japanese carrier force, the attack was viciously repealed with them losing 5 bombers, one suicide attempt was made to crash the bomber into the Akagi, Nagumo's flagship the attempt failed and convinced Nagumo to attack Ceylon again.

    However, Nagumo was now in a dilemma; he order his planes to use contact fuse bombs against land targets but he was given reports from scouting planes of a large squadron in the East but without it's composition. Hearing the faulty reports Nagumo rescinded the order and gave new orders to use ordinary bombs against the Allied fleet, indecision followed and precious minutes were lost and the results were the Allies had time lick their wounds refuel and set out again.

    images (3).jpeg Mexican Wildcats ready for takeoff

    The Allies took the initiative and sent out 117 fighters against the Japanese 108, the attack was being beaten back until by a stroke of luck and Mexican fighting spirit overwhelmed the Japanese and the fighters were defeated. By midnight the fighting died down with occasion skirmishes between Japanese cruisers and Commonwealth destroyers. By sunrise June 5, the Japanese launched a all out attack, but not on the base but on the carriers. The onslaught was so ferocious, that the Emperatriz was badly damaged and had to be abandon. Just as victory was secured and the Allies were about to be defeated, devastating news arrived: In their excitement they left the carriers vulnerable and the base on Ceylon noticed and immediately took advantage of this and sent out all of the Stukas and battleships on or near the base. The results: Hiryu and Kaga, 1 heavy cruiser, and 5 destroyers were sunk and Akagi was severely damaged. Realizing they committed a horrific error in leaving the carriers unprotected the attack was called of. Admiral Nagumo called off the battle and the IJN limped back to Japan, but the Allies weren't finished.

    250px-USS_Yorktown_(CV-5)_is_hit_by_a_torpedo_on_4_June_1942.jpg Emperatriz under attack
    220px-Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Hiryu_maneuvers_to_avoid_bombs_on_4_June_1942_(USAF-3725).jpg Hiryu survives
    250px-Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Hiryu_adrift_and_burning_on_5_June_1942_(NH_73065).jpg Hiryu goes down

    June 6: slowly and silently the fleet followed the IJN all the way to Formosa and just as the Japanese docked for repairs, the attack was launched; Wildcats and Douglas Dauntless bombers unleashed hell onto the Japanese with Mexican pilots screaming "Remember Cam Ranh!" The Japanese desperately tried to scramble their fighters but were blown to oblivion before even getting the chance. After two hours the attack was finished and the Allied fleet retreated back to Ceylon.

    The Battles of Ceylon and Formosa were decisive: the Japanese lost 4 aircraft carriers, 1 heavy cruiser, 7 destroyers, and 250 aircraft were lost including 3,100 pilots and crew. The Allies suffered only 1 carrier sunk, 1 destroyer sunk, and 150 planes destroyed.

    After the battles the IJN was now shadow of it's former self and they immediately placed the blame on the United States for the following reasons:

    1. After the victories in Indochina, Hong Kong, and Malaya the US placed an embargo on precious resources the Japanese needed: oil, rubber, and metal which damaged Japanese industrial potential.
    2. They saw what planes the Mexicans were using and immediately knew those were American planes and they immediately put two and two together and realized it was the Americans that warned the Allies of the attack.
    Tojo was furious and broke all relations with the United States and was secretly conferring with generals of invading the Philippines as retaliation for American assistance to the Allies.​
     
  18. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Some of the attached image links are broken, you should reupload them again
     
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  19. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    I think you greatly underestimated ottomans and with greece at offensive they loss all their otl advantages become a weakness... that is garipolli 2.0
     
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  20. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Well for the Ottoman Empire, i tend to think of them like Kingdom of Italy OTL, they did reformed and their industry got a bit better yes. However just like the OTL Kingdom of Italy, their leadership definitely gonna need some restructuring especially when it comes to fighting a world war. The Ottoman soldiers are battle-hardened and definitely high in morale and still pretty loyal to the state, as ITTL Armenian Genocide was butterflied away and this time the Empire won the Great War.

    The real problems however is that its leadership remained largely unchanged, with such a large army and ineffective leadership by mostly non-professionals, furthermore, even with the modernizations, the unproportional ill-equipped units of the Empire is still quite large, further exacerbated by the lack of a coherent approach of strategic leadership in the ages of new innovative warfares involving the use of airpower and mechanized infantry. Its army lacked mechanizations and inadequate supply lines due to having to extend their supply routes across the Balkans to fight their enemies. Its military performance in Second Weltkrieg can be summed up as "Good Soldiers, Bad Generals".
     
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