Maximilian's legacy: Interwar and Post World War 2

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by George Myles Gibson, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Okay the way I'm going to do this in is with one country at a time and follow their course up until 1939. We will cover the Interwar period, the depression, the rise of Communism and fascism, and we will see again as the world descends back to the darkness of another World War.
     
  2. jennysnooper87 Proud Albish Citizen Since 2017

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    I'm looking forward to seeing how Mexico, the USA, the British government-in-exile, and all the other countries are doing during this period.
     
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  3. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    The Second Mexican Empire after the First World War was at the Zenith of it's power, it had control of Southeast Africa, the entire Horn of Africa, South Africa, Rhodesia, Indochina, India, it now dominated the Caribbean with Jamaica and the Bahamas. Not to mention it had client states in The Republic of Ireland and The Kingdoms of Poland and Portugal.

    But the main problems Mexico was going through were social, women wanted the right to vote, how to compensate veterans from the war, the poverty of the indigenous people in the south of Mexico, and finally trying to assimilate the English speaking people of Belize.
    This is how people voted in the 1920 Mexican elections for Prime Minister between the Conservative party's candidate, Francisco Villa and the new Reformist Party's candidate, Emiliano Zapata (Zapata was a hero for his continued resistance against both British and Italian forces during the Somiliand front.)
    In December 1, the Reformist Party won a surprising landslide and Emiliano Zapata was now Prime Minister, this was a major upset because not since the start of the Empire, the Conservatives had always won elections.

    images.jpeg Prime Minister Zapata

    Zapata's first act as Prime Minister was to compensate veterans by giving them land in the North and money to support themselves until the harvests, this would satisfy veterans until in 1929.
    The next deal was to help the indigenous people by funding more schools and giving more modern equipment to the poor farmers and campesinos. As for assimilating Belize he took a hard stance on English speaking people, it was now punishable with a fine of 50 Pesos to be speaking English in public, while this was repealed it nonetheless caused a exodus of English people who still lived in Belize and many fled to either Brazilian Guiana, where they were much more lenient on English or they went to the United Kingdom in exile in Canada.

    As for the military, the Imperial Mexican Army was still kept at it's maximum of 100,000 soldiers in the North because of the recent arming in the US southern States. For the colonies, it was mandatory for every colony to have a maximum of 20,000 troops to keep the colonies from revolting, but after the 1918-19 Rebellions, no new Rebellions spring out, so the colonial forces were minimize to just 10,000 in 1926.
    The Navy was at first downsized and spending was cut to fund building and social projects. That was until in November 13, 1921 when the Japanese unveiled it's first aircraft carrier, Hōnshō, the first aircraft carrier of the world.

    images (2).jpeg Hōnshō

    Realizing they now have competition in the Pacific and worst the Japanese could threaten again the Mexican colonies, especially the Crown Jewel of the Asian colonies: Indochina, Prime Minister Zapata focus all spending on the Navy with Zapata quoted as saying

    "Every last Peso, Silver, Gold, and Diamond piece will be used to not let them end Rule Mexicania."

    The first Mexican aircraft carrier was the BSM Virgin de Guadalupe, revealed in February 4, 1922 the first of her kind.

    images (7).jpeg BSM Virgin de Guadalupe

    This began a new arms race with the Aztec eagle of Mexico vs the Rising Sun of Japan, by the end of 20s the Mexican and Japanese navies were the first rate of the Pacific, with both having the same number of Battleships: Mexico 20, Japan 22. in aircraft carriers: Mexico 23, Japan 25. Armoured cruisers: Mexico 20, Japan 18. Destroyers: Mexico 170, Japan 169. The only field Japan beats Mexico in was in Submarines with Japan having nearly 200 compared to Mexico's 50.

    The Pacific Arms race would continue until 1929 with the advent of the Great Depression and the two empires would enter into a agreement in 1930 In the Buenos Aires Agreement to no longer 1-up each other and to let each empire have their own spheres of influence: Mexico: Southeast Asia and India Japan: China, Korea, and Mongolia.

    The agreement was signed between the Naval commanders of the two nations; Japan's Tōgō Heihachirō and Mexico's Hilario Rodriguez Malpica Segovia in September 1930.

    220px-Togo_Heihachiro_in_uniform.jpg Tōgō Heihachirō

    This didn't stop the Mexican Japanese enmity with both using the Warlords in China to poke at each other. Back in 1925 Mexico was supporting greatly the Fengtian clique and Beiyang Government in Manchuria, which was considered by Japan it's sphere of influence and it was because of Mexican support to the Warlord Zhang Zuolin, with them providing Rifles, ammo, canons and advisors that the Northern Expedition ended in disaster. Because of this Japan began supporting the Kuomintang Government in Nanjing.
    Even after the Buenos Aires Agreement this didn't stop the proxy wars.

    220px-Zhang_Zuo-lin.png Warlord Zhang Zuolin
    images (8).jpeg Mexican racism
    asv699__01.jpg Japanese samurai smashing Mexican ships
    (I couldn't find better one to convey the point of Japanese Mexican rivalry.)

    In Mexico, the middle class began to boom with wealth coming from the reparations from Britain and France and because of this the Mexican stock market boomed with many investing. Women were finally given the right to vote in 1927.

    images (10).jpeg images (9).jpeg the Locos años veinte

    However the greatest crisis began in 1926 when Agustín II passed away and Emiliano succeeded him, but he was 14 years old and a Regency was made with his mother Stephanie and Prime Minister Zapata. But the real crisis began in 1936 when the now crowned Emperor Emiliano I was supposed to marry his arranged fiancee Ileana of Romania, however he proposed to the Infanta of Spain, Princess Beatriz of Spain, daughter of Alfonso XIII, whom he been going out with and had more in common with than his arranged bride.

    This was unacceptable and the Government was split with conservatives backing the Romanian Princess called "Rumanistas and the Reformists backing the Spanish Princess called "Peninsulares". The Conservatives wanted the marriage with Ileana to strengthen ties with Germany's Hohenzollern dynasty while the Reformists saw a alliance with Spain more beneficial with Spanish Malaya as a base to station the Marina Imperial's Pacific Fleet.

    The_Infanta_doña_Beatriz_de_Borbón_y_Battenberg;_daughter_of_Alfonso_XIII.jpg Infanta Beatriz of Spain

    Zapata was at first supportive of the Emperor until he needed conservative support to push bills through to help mitigate the Depression and so told the Emperor that he must marry Ileana. The Emperor refused and threaten to abdicate, now things got heated. Realizing that if he abdicates then that would leave his more liberal sister Isabel Marie, now Queen of Poland, the Conservatives in no way wanted that and so on May, they finally caved in. In May 12, Emiliano I and Beatriz married, making a possible Uníon between Mexico and Spain possible. For the following two more years things were peaceful until the Union of Britain and Vichy France declared war on Spain and Germany dragging Mexico in the Second World War.​
     
  4. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Who should I cover next United States, Japan, Britain, or Italy
     
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  5. jennysnooper87 Proud Albish Citizen Since 2017

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    The USA.
     
  6. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    After the First Great War, the United States entered a period of recession because of the defeat of Britain and France, two of it's biggest trading partners, and with the revolutions it added further problems the United States had to deal with.

    The first problem was that the US had to deal with was a world economy now dominated by Germany, The Ottoman Empire, and Mexico. Because Germany was now the leading global trading partner in Europe. The Ottoman Empire had control of Oil and the Suez Canal making it now that the US had to pay a toll to cross. But the biggest blow was the fact that South of the border, Mexico had now a larger Navy and army in the North American continent.

    This would not do and in 1920 Warren G. Harding was elected and he promised to re-establish American exceptionalism and dominance, while Mexico was busy battling Japan in the Pacific Naval arms race, the US was busy building aircraft carriers and Battleships to take on the Marina Imperial, and on land soldiers were being positioned near the Mexican border. While this did recement US power, it didn't improve the economy, with farmers in absolute poverty and the middle class stuck with no way to advance. So with no other choice, President Harding had to ask Germany and Mexico for help and the two countries lended loans to the US to help them switch to the two lending currencies: the German Mark and Mexican Peso, this along with the Teapot dome scandal that exposed Harding's cabinet members selling American oil meant for the US Navy to companies, ended Harding's career and his health, dying of a stroke in 1923 and he was replaced by his vice-president Calvin Coolidage in 1924.

    220px-Warren_G_Harding-Harris_&_Ewing.jpg President Warren Harding

    images (11).jpeg "Watch on the Rio Grande"

    images (12).jpeg USS Langley

    Under Coolidage, the US economy began to experience a uptick because of the switch to the German and Mexican trading and loans and this lead to a Laissez Faire attitude to business and banking. Now in 1925, the troubles seem to be over and the US middle class was doing good people can now buy cars, radios, appliances, and better houses, but that was for the middle class, the farmers in the south were living in abject poverty and without a war ti boost any type of sales, many were going broke and were forced to in crammed slums.

    220px-Calvin_Coolidge_cph.3g10777_(cropped).jpg Calvin Coolidage

    And unknown to anyone the US Mexican rivalry was still going on but behind close doors from both publics view.
    After the victory in The First World War, the US now had to deal with a more industrialized, colonial, and Naval oriented Mexico and the US were not happy. So every time a South or Central American country was experiencing turmoil, the United States was active in supporting the Pro-United States one, example: On March 1, 1920 Mexico's longtime ally in Guatemala: Manuel Estrada Cabrera, was now facing opposition and the United States funded and politically supported The Unionist party against Cabrera and this ended in his surrender in April 14, and was followed was a 11 year long hectic back and forth between Pro-United States and Pro-Mexico presidents until in 1931 the Pro-United States General Jorge Ubico won and begun years of opression and selling to the United Fruit Company.

    200px-Cabreraunionistas.jpg Propaganda against Cabrera
    160px-Manifestacionunionista1920.jpg Riots in Guatemala
    show-photo-icon.jpg Gen. Jorge Ubico

    Also in the Gulf of Mexico, the United States still had control of Haiti right next to the Mexican State of Santo Domingo.

    One incident in particular would have almost have led to war between the two Juggernauts: On the night of 12 of January, 1928 a group of 6 Ku Klux Klansmen were patrolling the Mexican American border searching for a Mexican, they saw one near El Paso, and they kidnapped him, then they lynched him. Unknowingly, the man they lynched was a captain and when his group found his body, they vowed revenge. In 4:00 a.m. they illegally crosed the border and found the Klansmen drinking, quietly they snuck up on them and when they weren't expecting it, they immediately began beating them with the butts of their rifles and when they were subdued, they began torturing them with their bayonets and when they couldn't scream anymore they shot them, execution style and burned the bodies. The next day, Texan rangers found the chard bodies they blamed Mexican soldiers for murdering in cold blood six innocent men. The anger and fear nearly lead to war until the soldiers who killed the Klansmen, showed the dead captain's hanged body and said it was justice, afterwards they were court-martialed and found guilty of murder. (Although they were let off easy.) This adverted war, but the mistrust still remained.

    A moment of Detente came in during the Great Depression, when the two powers were trying to get their economies back on their feet. In 1934, President Franklin Roosevelt was elected into office and set in A Good Neighbor policy were both Mexico and the United States agreed to not infringe on their respected Spheres of influence, the United States left Haiti and Mexico stopped funding anti American groups. This was fine for Mexico because it would mean they could focus on the growing threat of Japan.

    Under Roosevelt, the United States recovered from the depression and was setting it's own course until in 1939 the Second Great War erupted and the United States declared it's neutrality.​
     
  7. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Aside from this, you should also cover the current situation in Europe in the aftermath of WW1 and the interwar period as there are a lot to cover considering the altered territories of Europe with a Central Powers victory.

    Also on a smaller note, maybe the situations of the Union of Britain, the Dominion of Canada and the remaining Crown Colonies of the British as well.

    Im also look forward to see how France and Italy were altered in this timeline since both were not fragmented yet and managed to avert the Communist uprising and stay in one piece, unlike their Kaiserreich TL counterparts.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  8. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    That's what I planned to do cover one nation at a time and then the whole. Well France managed to stay together, Italy was not so lucky, more on that later.

    Speaking of which, what do you think of the new arms race between México and Japan?
     
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  9. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    Well on that, its actually pretty reasonable, although the US will definitely doubled their defense budget and planning out their warplans to deal with both Mexico and Japan. So yeah, you will see the American Fleet definitely expanded further with the Big Navy Act being prioritized to prepare themselves to avoid being sandwhiched by the two giants. So, its likely that the US will have more ships than both Mexico and Japan, especially in aircraft carrier construction as the other two powers mainly focused on battleships and battlecruisers instead.

    But since Mexico ITTL kinda acted like the OTL Britain, i can see the Americans will ended up being allies to the Mexicans instead. With Roosevelt Good Neighbor Act, the relations of the two would improve significantly and this could be a starting point for a future Mexican-American Alliance against Japan in the Pacific.

    Also I think the notion of America keep referring to Mexico ITTL as “brown” sounds like more of a racist stereotype since their white European population is just as large, probably larger than mestizos and natives due to the huge waves of immigrations from Europe near the end of 19th century.

    My guess is that lot of German-Mexicans ITTL especially would be infuriates when the American Newspaper headlines keep generalizing Mexicans as “brown”.
     
  10. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    My favorite part of this is the possible Spanish Mexican Union and China, which speaking of, since the northern Expedition failed and Mexico supporting the Beiyang Government and Japan supporting the Kuomintang, and the Soviet Union supporting the communists, this is definitely a giant clusterf*uck.
     
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  11. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    On another note, its pretty ironic to see the Second Mexican Empire ITTL acted in pretty much the same way British Empire did after WW2 in terms of their colonial administration.

    Some of their colonies with white majority like the United South Africa and Rhodesia as was granted self-governing and a great deal of autonomy much the British Dominions, and like the British Empire, the Mexicans only left a few supervisors behind in India to observe the Raj government in their occupied territories.

    Also, unlike the previous French occupiers, the Mexican Indochina would definitely received more fundings for colonial developments to counter the encroaching Japanese in the North, these colonies also served as much better alternatives than previous Formosa and Islas Pescadores in terms of resources and manpower.

    Vietnam in particular would have served as a perfect docking place for the Mexican Pacific Fleet, especially in the strategic Cam Ranh Bay, one of the best deepwater shelter in Asia, making the place very useful for the establishment of a naval port for the Capital ships of the Marina Imperial and acted as a fleet-in-being against the Japanese naval power in the Pacific. (This is basically the Mexican’s equivalent to Singapore, a Gibraltar of the East)

    In terms of treatments of the natives, my guess here is pretty much a largely “laissez faire” attitudes toward them/ The only exception case in here would be the Arabs as they have proven to be prone to rebel and not very tolerant with towards the more Catholic colonial administration of Mexicans.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
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  12. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    What do you think of a possible Mexican Spanish Union, could it be like a Neo-Spanish empire or like Austria-Hungary?
     
  13. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    This, my friend, is no longer the Mexican Empire, its the Spanish Empire 2.0, but this time a lot more tolerable, democratic and no Spanish Inquisition.
     
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  14. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Or more like the Hispanic Empire.
     
  15. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    The irony thing about this Mexican Empire ITTL to me is that they basically copied the British as their role model on how to maintain a maritime empire across the globe. It is more liberal than the US, and as a nation, Mexico is much more democratic during this period than its European counterparts like Austria-Hungary or the Ottoman in Mid-East.

    They gave equal rights to both the natives and the people of color way before US did (courtesy of Emperor Maximilian the First). They also gave more equality for women while at the same time pretty lenient toward their colonies despite being a Catholic nation.

    And just like the USA, Second Mexican Empire in North America is a melting pot of cultures. Hispanics, Germans, Polish, Italians, Austrians and Irish as the main dominant European ethnic groups while also having the mestizos and the natives as well as other people of color (Asians and black Africans) on the smaller percentage of the population.

    This really does screams like Mexico is emulating the British ITTL to me, and the only thing left now for the Empire is to befriend with the US and finally become fire-forged friends with them in the Second Weltkrieg.
     
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  16. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    Honestly the thing I'm waiting for to happen is a Bismarck vs Hood moment between Japan and Mexico, what kind of ships should be used against the Yamato?
     
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  17. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    For that you will need a fast battleship or a battlecruiser with 16inch guns or 18inch guns.
     
  18. lawrencenguyen Well-Known Member

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    My idea is basically let the US and Mexican Empire formed an alliance together against the Japanese threat so that the Mexican fleet can get access to this.
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk2.php
    Or this, as the US would later prefer using smaller 406mm guns with Super Heavy Shells could do the same penetration performance like the Japanese 460mm. This gun was rejected by the US Navy but could provided the Mexican ships sufficient firepower to go toe to toe against the Yamato class.
    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_18-48_mk1.php
     
  19. George Myles Gibson Don Jorge

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    After the Weltkreig, the Kingdom of Italy was no more. After losing Venento to Austria-Hungary and it's colonies to The Ottomans and Mexicans, the Italian peninsula was ready to explode.

    In May 1919, there were protests in the south of Italy with people asking for economic development and better education. The Italian Parliament and King Victor Emmanuele III assumed these were communist agitators and sent in the army. When the army arrived in Naples, now things were truly getting heated and the protesters got violent, with some throwing rocks and bottles at the soldiers and the General in charge, Luigi Cadorna for some Goddamn reason, ordered the soldiers to fire on the protesters, guns and machine guns went off and all hell broke loose with, many trying to escape but many were trampled to death. After two hours, the firing stop and 200 people were dead.

    This didn't stop the protests instead this brought back memories of repression and corruption of the Savoyard Kings and how they don't care of the Mezzogiorno or southern Italy and this led to revolts against the Savoia family in Sicily, Naples, and Palermo. The Italian Army tried to stop the rebellions however meddling from the newly reformed Danubian Empire who gave weapons to the rebels. The revolts were got bigger and bigger and worse and worse and by the end of May, all of the South was in open arms.

    In a desperate attempt to end the revolts, General Armando Diaz tried to recreate Giuseppe Garibaldi's Expedition of the Thousand, however he wasn't facing organized armies instead guerillas and brigands, but the armies he did faced, they were obliviously being lead by Austrian advisors.

    220px-A_Diaz.jpg Armando Diaz
    225px-Briganti_1862_from_Bisaccia.jpg Brigands in Southern Italy

    But the biggest blow was that on April 9, all groups declared the Reborned Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and declared Prince Alfonso, Count of Caserta as King of the Two Sicilies. This united all the different factions and with support from the Danubian Empire, they were able to defeat Diaz at the Battle of Campobasso in the 23, ending the independence of Southern Italy. Prince Alfonso, was crowned as King Alfonso I of the Two Sicilies in the 28 and the Danubian Empire, Germany, Mexico, Spain, and Portugal recognized him and the kingdom.

    Alfonso,_Count_of_Caserta.jpg King Alfonso I
    1200px-Flag_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Two_Sicilies_(1816).svg.png Kingdom of the Two Sicilies

    Seeing this and being emboldened, Pope Benedict XV declared that the Papal States were now Independent and every Catholic nation recognized it as Independent: Spain, Portulgal, Danubian Empire, Second Mexican Empire, Poland, Ireland, the Two Sicilies, Lithuania, and Bavaria.

    220px-Benedictus_XV.jpg Pope Benedict XV
    250px-Flag_of_the_Papal_States_(1825-1870).svg.png Papal States

    Italy, or more specifically, the Kingdom of Sardinia was imploding, it took one man to save the Kingdom: Benito Mussolini and his Fascist ideology, first he brutally suppressed all communist agitators. Second, he got the economy under control. Third he declared that he was Il Duce and that there will be no more elections.

    Mussolini had dreams of reconquering not only the entire Italian peninsula again but also retaking the Austrian territories back. But he knew that the Sardinian army was to weak and he needed allies, he found the perfect allies in his fellow fascist countries: Fascist France and the Union of Britain. And when France and Britain declared war on Germany and the Danubian Empire in 1939, the Kingdom of Sardinia followed suit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  20. Nivek Resident Videogame Expert

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    There can't be a Vichy france, could be still the third republic, the fourth, of the fifty-fifth