Maximilian I holy Roman emperor has a second son

Ok so, here's what everyone has suggested so far:
  • Marriage for Maximilian of Austria to Anne of Bohemia and Hungary, probably before her brother's death. Thus, that brings the line of Francis into possession of Hungary and thus Hapsburg dominance there like OTL, but under a different line.
  • For Mary of Austria, there' been talk of Sigismund I of Poland, but as has been pointed out, she's a few years too young, and even if she swapped birthdates with her brother, she's probably still too young for him. However, I could see her ending up with (a) Ferdinand of Austria, her cousin and Charles, King of Spain and Duke of Burgundy's brother, (b) Christian III of Denmark. However, the second match might cause a rift between the two lines of the Hapsburgs. As interesting as that could be, I have doubts it would actually happen. The reality is, Mary of Austria is in the awkward spot of being too young for many people, and too old for most of the others. It might be interesting to see her marry into Portugal, maybe as Luis, Duke of Beja's wife in a double match with one of her cousins and John of Portugal. If that happens, she might automatically end up with John III of Portugal, if she's sent with Eleanor of Austria and Manuel I of Portugal snaps her up. That will cause a rift between Manuel and both of his elder sons, which would be interesting. That's what I'm going to go with for this family tree, but her marriage (as are all of them) would be up to the writer of the timeline.
  • For Francis, I could easily see him entering the church hierarchy. An Archbishop in the family is always a good thing, and either Francis or Leopold could be set up for that. However, let's say he's not a good fit for the church and Leopold is (because he's the youngest). I could see him marrying later in life, perhaps to an heiress if they can find one, but most likely just a noblewoman, probably Hungarian. I could actually see him marrying a daughter of Stephan Bathory, maybe Anna Bathory, who OTL was the mother of the famed Elizabeth Bathory.
  • Christine of Austria has been allocated to France. So either Francis I of France as a second wife, Charles VIII of France as a second wife, or maybe a son of Charles VIII, depending on the timeline. However, I must say that in the case of Charles VIII surviving, there's likely also a son of Louis, Duke of Orleans open as a potential husband for Christine, which might be interesting.
  • Leopold is likely set for the church, if Francis isn't.
  • Elisabeth of Austria has already been sent to the Elector Palatine, according to group consensus. However, I must add that he won't be Elector Palatine until 1559, and before then, he's just an heir to a Duke. So it bears to reason that she might marry elsewhere. It really depends on the timeline.

Francis of Austria, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1481: c.1532) m. Elizabeth of Austria (b.1485: d.1555) (a)

1a) Maximilian of Austria (b.1502) m. Anne I, Queen of Bohemia and Hungary (b.1503) (a)

2a) Mary of Austria (b.1505) m. John III of Portugal (b.1502: d.1557) (a)

3a) Francis of Austria (b.1507) m. Anne Bathory (c.1530) (a)

4a) Christina of Austria (b.1510) m. Francis I of France (b.1494: d.1547)/Charles VIII of France or his son (b.1470/c.1500) (a)

5a) Leopold of Austria, Archbishop of *Insert Name Here* (b.1512)

6a) Elisabeth of Austria (b.1515) m. Frederick III, Elector Palpatine (b.1515: d.1576) (a)​

Considering that Maximilian had several bastard kids - three bastard sons (two of whom went into the clergy), I don't think its impossible to see someone in the church. That said, said bastard son, Georg (b.1504, d.1557), ended up as Prince Bishop of Liège (1544), Prince Bishop of Brixen (1525) and Archbishop of Valencia(1538) in Spain, plus he had three bastards of his own, the son, Georg Maximilian (d.1619) was a cleric in his own right. Max's other bastard son, Leopold (b.1515, d.1557), was bishop of Cordoba from 1541, while Leopold's bastard son Maximiliano d'Austria (b.1555) became archbishop of Santiago de Compostela.
So no reason why TTL Archduke Leopold couldn't take the place of his bastard uncle

OTL the Elector Palatine was promised an archduchess to wife, although he was referred to as Friedl of the Empty Pockets. His first attempt was Margarethe of Austria, then Eleanor of Austria (who there was heavy suspicion that after her first husband died, she wed the Elector. Karl V made both his sister and then Friedl swear up and down on their immortal souls that they hadn't tied the knot). Finally, Karl V gave him Dorothea of Denmark in marriage - both to just to shut him up and because the Wittelsbachs had a family connection to the Nordic thrones, so it was seen as a good match for her. However, the freewheeling with money continued, and Karl had to settle their debts more than once IIRC.
 
Last edited:
Sorry if I'm derailing or this seems like a stupid request, but can we please differentiate between Franz, the Holy Roman Emperor and François, the king of France by using the native forms of their names, rather than just referring to them both as Francis. There've been several places where I've had to reread a paragraph several times over to figure out which one we're talking about.

PS: My apologies for sounding whiny
Sure thing. If it’s any help, I’ve decided that Charles VIII will be living longer and also having a son to succeed him
 
Sorry if I'm derailing or this seems like a stupid request, but can we please differentiate between Franz, the Holy Roman Emperor and François, the king of France by using the native forms of their names, rather than just referring to them both as Francis. There've been several places where I've had to reread a paragraph several times over to figure out which one we're talking about.

PS: My apologies for sounding whiny

No I get that. Medieval and Renaissance Era Europe was plagued with basically the same name over and over again, and I get a headache (at least it isn't the 17th century, with all those Marie's, Mary's and Maria's!) so I'll try and keep the names somewhat differentiated via counrty specific spelling. :)
 
I think Franz will do everything in his power to prevent that. Might even get some help from the French. Either Franz himself takes it or it goes to Ferdinand.
 
The Burgundians might want a adult in charge for once and not a 5 year old. Besides Franz need to consolidate his inheritance. Support Charles claim to Spain, hell send him there asp to be raised spanish and also get him out of the way. By the time Charles is 17 or so, he will be fully spanish, bethrothed to Isabella of Portugal and won't care a wit about the Low Countries (he has mostly forgotten them).

His uncle will have many children, rule Burgundy and have the imperial crown on his head. Win-win.
 
The Burgundians might want a adult in charge for once and not a 5 year old. Besides Franz need to consolidate his inheritance. Support Charles claim to Spain, hell send him there asp to be raised spanish and also get him out of the way. By the time Charles is 17 or so, he will be fully spanish, bethrothed to Isabella of Portugal and won't care a wit about the Low Countries (he has mostly forgotten them).

His uncle will have many children, rule Burgundy and have the imperial crown on his head. Win-win.
This is very true though would some not want a child so the regency could give them more power
 
Of course if it's right after Philip dies then Maximilian can step in between and he most likely will. I can see him designating Franz as king of the romans and heir to the austrian lands. In return Franz can demand that Charles don't get Burgundy and be sent to Spain. Margaret can raise Ferdinand in exhange.
 
Of course if it's right after Philip dies then Maximilian can step in between and he most likely will. I can see him designating Franz as king of the romans and heir to the austrian lands. In return Franz can demand that Charles don't get Burgundy and be sent to Spain. Margaret can raise Ferdinand in exhange.
Sounds a good exchange fir m, and also means we could get a grand duke Ferdinand
 
Ok y'all, I'm going to pour cold water on Franz getting Burgundy or forcing it out of Charles's hand. It just causes more problems than it's worth and the French might exploit the discord between the 2 branches.

Also the estates actually prefer a young/pliable heir or ruler. It prolongs regency and weakens central authority. Mary in her will designated Maximilian as her heir. The estates disputed this because Maximilian kept centralising. They forced Max out holding young Philip hostage before eventually we had a negotiated regency for Philip after Frederick III intervened.

The only benefit this Francis/Franz will have over Max is not being a foreigner. But i don't think this will get him very far.

So long as it's not stipulated that burgundy should be split somehow, it will all go to Charles. Ferdinand can be deputy governor on his behalf after Charles arrives in Spain while Magaret of Austria trains him.

We have to be realistic guys, the nobility/cities and other classes of the era are for the most part agx anything that reduces their own authority or privileges in any way. Charles (a child) less likely to do so versus Franz (an adult),

Don't get me wrong I like Ferdinand a lot but he's low on the totem pole in this scenario.
 
Ok y'all, I'm going to pour cold water on Franz getting Burgundy or forcing it out of Charles's hand. It just causes more problems than it's worth and the French might exploit the discord between the 2 branches.

Also the estates actually prefer a young/pliable heir or ruler. It prolongs regency and weakens central authority. Mary in her will designated Maximilian as her heir. The estates disputed this because Maximilian kept centralising. They forced Max out holding young Philip hostage before eventually we had a negotiated regency for Philip after Frederick III intervened.

The only benefit this Francis/Franz will have over Max is not being a foreigner. But i don't think this will get him very far.

So long as it's not stipulated that burgundy should be split somehow, it will all go to Charles. Ferdinand can be deputy governor on his behalf after Charles arrives in Spain while Magaret of Austria trains him.

We have to be realistic guys, the nobility/cities and other classes of the era are for the most part agx anything that reduces their own authority or privileges in any way. Charles (a child) less likely to do so versus Franz (an adult),

Don't get me wrong I like Ferdinand a lot but he's low on the totem pole in this scenario.
This is very true. I imagine then that Ferdinand will have to be content as governors of the Low Countries and not hold any trrritory himself?
 
This is very true. I imagine then that Ferdinand will have to be content as governors of the Low Countries and not hold any trrritory himself?

Either that or Ferdinand of Aragon gives him Naples + Sicily. Apparently Ferdinand of Aragon really doted on Ferdinand (same name same birth day). Only problem is now you've weakened the ability to keep the French out of Italy without Spain being directly involved. This might also affect a budding relationship between Charles & Ferdinand.

Technically the natural/legitimate Neapolitan line is still extant with Ferdinand of Calabria. We could unify the claims by having Ferdinand marry Isabella daughter of Frederick of Naples (Ferdinand of Calabria's dad, who was deposed by the French & Aragonese)
 
Top