Maximilian I holy Roman emperor has a second son

If you want a surviving York dymnastie you can do that as well, but I'm not sure that Franz survival would butterfly away the Tudors comming to power. Does Mary of Burgundy survive long with two living sons? That would be gigant butterfly.
 
This is true, though of course, one could see a knock on effect. And Mary of Burgundy surviving would be really good. With a son born in 1481, I'm not suer she'd be in any state to go horse riding in the middle of fucking nowhere.
 
A surviving Mary does put several things in movement. First of all is that Burgundy is stronger without Maximilian having to fight everyone in Flanders, no civil war. Margaret of Burgundy is definitly not getting send away to France, the Yorks have a stronger allied and the burgundian independence is more sturdier. Also more children for Max and Mary.
 
A surviving Mary does put several things in movement. First of all is that Burgundy is stronger without Maximilian having to fight everyone in Flanders, no civil war. Margaret of Burgundy is definitly not getting send away to France, the Yorks have a stronger allied and the burgundian independence is more sturdier. Also more children for Max and Mary.

Aye this is very true, it could also mean that Burgundy proper doesn't get signed away?
 
I think that while Mary would be happy with the empire protecting her domains she would also protect Burgundy's indepence. Her living longer means that she can outline means of taxation, trade (burgundy's lifeblood) and such.

Mary of Burgundy m Maxmilian I, Holy Roman Emperor

-Philip of Burgundy b 1478

-Margaret of Burgundy b 1480

-Franz, Holy Roman Emperor b 1481

-Mary of Burgundy b 1484 d 1485

-Charles of Burgundy b 1487

-Eleanor of Burgundy b 1490
 
I think that while Mary would be happy with the empire protecting her domains she would also protect Burgundy's indepence. Her living longer means that she can outline means of taxation, trade (burgundy's lifeblood) and such.

Mary of Burgundy m Maxmilian I, Holy Roman Emperor

-Philip of Burgundy b 1478

-Margaret of Burgundy b 1480

-Franz, Holy Roman Emperor b 1481

-Mary of Burgundy b 1484 d 1485

-Charles of Burgundy b 1487

-Eleanor of Burgundy b 1490

That sounds good to me, it also means that there's no regency for Philip strenghtening ducal authority
 
I can picture Mary living until around 1510 or so. With Mary in the picture I imagine that Margaret of York will be focusing her energies on two three things:

-Keeping the anglo-burgundian alliance alive. Perhaps helping Richard survive Bosworth with men and arms or just arresting Henry Tudor.

-Raising her step-grandchildren. If Mary and Max travels Burgundy to rule and manage it, I can picture the royal nursery being in Malines and with Margaret. Philip, Margaret, Franz, Charles (named for his grandfather on Margaret's insistance) and Eleanor being left in the dowager duchess household.

-Collecting art, sponsoring religous reformation and being the patron of many book printers.
 
Margaret of York was in her own way a reformer

"Margaret, like her mother and many other devout men and women in northen europe, followed the way know as devotio modern. This regime had its origins in the teaching of Gerard de Groot of Flanders."

"The lay practitioners of the devotion moderna build their lives around patterns of worship, prayer, study and contemplation. Through private study, they were led towards self eduction and their piety involved them in religous orders, especially to the Augustinian Canons, the Observant Friars and the Poor Clares."

"She made contact with Denis Van Rijkel, a Carthusian scholar and teacher, one of the leading theologians of the low countries. Later she had other friends among the more pious and reforming clergy. She consulted the prior of Groenendael over the reorganisation of the Victorine convent at Blydenberg in the low countries, and she turned to Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa, the leading papal reformer in the Low Countries when she was trying to promote reform in religious houses at Louvain and Binche."

"The reform movement in the Low Countries concentrated chiefly on restoring the purity of the religious life within convents and monastries. The reformers also tried to see that only conscientious and well educated priests and bishops appointed to benefices and to ensure that all religious services were properly performed."

Margaret also founded several convents for woman and was a patron to many others. She prefered Augustines and working orders. She also favored reform within the Observant Friars and the cult of St Colette of Corbie. She also worked with the Carthusian order.
 
So following on from this trail of thought, what could be done with the Catholic church to keep more of Europe Catholic and what effects does this have?
 
Adressing the corruption and abuse and greed within would be a good way to start. Purifying the clergy and priests and bishops. A firm iron hand would be good. If Franz has that perhaps things can be better. No black legend of spain either.
 
Adressing the corruption and abuse and greed within would be a good way to start. Purifying the clergy and priests and bishops. A firm iron hand would be good. If Franz has that perhaps things can be better. No black legend of spain either.
Adressing the corruption and abuse and greed within would be a good way to start. Purifying the clergy and priests and bishops. A firm iron hand would be good. If Franz has that perhaps things can be better. No black legend of spain either.

Hmm aye, I think that would help definitely. Maybe following something of the reforms that Cardinal Dueze had suggested centuries before?
 
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