Maximilian I holy Roman emperor has a second son

So here's a query for you, Maximilian I holy Roman emperors second son Francis born in 1481 survives. Assume that things elsewhere go as otl, Philip and Joanna become rulers of Castile, Philip dies. How does Maximilian partition his empire? Does Francis get chosen as Roman emperor? And Charles get Spain? What if Ferdinand?
 
Should he survive and Philip dies, he'll likely be emperor/emperor candidate instead of Charles. He'll definitely get Austria proper, there's no legality for him to get anything in the low countries unless the estates themselves for some reason want that separation and even that'll be incredibly problematic.

Ferdinand probably ends up in the church or might be installed as Duke of Milan (if everything is exactly our timeline just with Francis alive, kind of low though to be honest) depending on the # of sons Francis has. Francis's branch will probably be the ones arranged for in the contract with Vladislaus.

The interesting thing will be the imperial election. Francis I is still avaricious, and so might still try to be a candidate but gosh, I the odds of him being elected are much less than they ever were. Hopefully this would remove the utterly wasteful election (because of all the bribes going back and forth) I'm not saying the electors won't take advantage of the situation but if Francis is any smart (which he was) he'd see the writing on the wall sooner.
 
Depends what kind pf person Francis is? Imperial throne is elective, so primogeniture doesn't matter. Francis, being older than Charles at the time of election has big chance to win, especially if father designated him as heir.
Ferdinand doesn't need to be churchman, he could be appointed as Governor of Netherlands and could be given part of hereditary Habsburg lands-Tirol or Styria.
Sigismund and Vladislaus would want Francis to marry their youngest sister, Elizabeth, who would be about the same age as him, although I'm not sure if Max would accept offer-he was offered Elizabeth himself and refused.
 
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Depends what kind pf person Francis is? Imperial throne is elective, so primogeniture doesn't matter. Francis, being older than Charles at the time of election has big chance to win, especially if father designated him as heir.
Ferdinand doesn't need to be churchman, he could be appointed as Governor of Netherlands and could be given part of hereditary Habsburg lands-Tirol or Styria.

I don't think Maximilian would support Charles's candidature, it'd be utterly wasteful to split the Habsburg vote (as per influence on the election). On Ferdinand getting territory in Tyrol and Styria, I don't think Maximilian would do that either. The relationship isn't there (though it didn't exist OTL, it was stipulated that his lands be divided between his heirs Charles + Ferdinand, the bohemian marriage contract must've influenced the decision. This TL, there's no incentive apart from sentimentality which doesn't exist. Plus who knows how many kids Francis has)

Now being governor sounds like a great idea and I can see that happening, especially given their later co-operative relationship.
 
I don't think Maximilian would support Charles's candidature, it'd be utterly wasteful to split the Habsburg vote (as per influence on the election). On Ferdinand getting territory in Tyrol and Styria, I don't think Maximilian would do that either. The relationship isn't there (though it didn't exist OTL, it was stipulated that his lands be divided between his heirs Charles + Ferdinand, the bohemian marriage contract must've influenced the decision. This TL, there's no incentive apart from sentimentality which doesn't exist. Plus who knows how many kids Francis has)

Now being governor sounds like a great idea and I can see that happening, especially given their later co-operative relationship.[/QUOTE


Ferdinand as governor works as well. I wonder who he’d marry in such a situation. And I can see Francis or his son marrying Anne of bohemia and Hungary should she still exist
 
The split is likely that the Empire, Burgundy and Spain all get their own branches of the Habsburgs.
Franz of Austria might marry a German or Italian heiress (Bianca or Anna Maria Sforza, Elisabeth of Bavaria-whatever). As opposed to the "foreign" Karl born in Ghent or Ferdinand (born in Spain), Franz is most likely the most reasonable candidate for the imperial throne.
 
Francis is whole generation older than OTL Anne of Hungary. I think he'll rather marry Elizabeth of Denmark (b. 1485).
 
The split is likely that the Empire, Burgundy and Spain all get their own branches of the Habsburgs.
Franz of Austria might marry a German or Italian heiress (Bianca or Anna Maria Sforza, Elisabeth of Bavaria-whatever). As opposed to the "foreign" Karl born in Ghent or Ferdinand (born in Spain), Franz is most likely the most reasonable candidate for the imperial throne.
Oh bianca Sforza would be fun, especially as she married his father otl aha
 
Francis would be seen as heir after Philip's death, but before this happen what plans would Max have for his younger son's future? Milan seems to be right direction.
 
So, if I've read this right, in 1519, the situation would be this:

Holy Roman Empire, and Austrian crownlands: Francis I

Spain: Carlos I

Low Countries: Ferdinand I
 
So, if I've read this right, in 1519, the situation would be this:

Holy Roman Empire, and Austrian crownlands: Francis I

Spain: Carlos I

Low Countries: Ferdinand I

Most likely Karl and Ferdinand's crowns would be switched around, what with Burgundy being Karl's birthplace and Spain Ferdinand's (not to mention Fernando II's favouritism towards his namesake grandson vs his abhorrence for his "foreign" eldest grandsin)
 
Most likely Karl and Ferdinand's crowns would be switched around, what with Burgundy being Karl's birthplace and Spain Ferdinand's (not to mention Fernando II's favouritism towards his namesake grandson vs his abhorrence for his "foreign" eldest grandsin)

Oh interesting, though there was the tradition of giving the empire to the firstborn son no?
 
Just to be clear I was implying that Francis's branch i.e. children would be whom the contract with Vladislaus for Anne & Louis would likely be arranged for if they are age appropriate

Bianca Sforza is too old for Francis by about 9 years so I don't think she'd be a candidate for him. If anything I think Max would arrange initially for Francis to marry Anne of Brittany she's older by 4 years.

Problem is Charles VIII of France won't allow it, still have the Habsburg encircling issue. So who is considered after the engagement is broken off
Margaret Tudor (b. 1489, OTL queen of France)
Elizabeth Jagiellon (b. 1482, like @Sventious21 suggested)
Helena of Moscow (b.1476, Frederick III considered marrying her for a Russian alliance agx the Jagiellons, the Tsar suggested Max instead, if Max declines they can always put up Francis instead)
Charlotte of Naples (b. 1479, unlikely but interesting)
One of his Bavarian cousins Sidonie, Sibylle or Sabina


This would free up Max to marry Bianca earlier if at all( Ludovico of Sforza might push for the an alliance with Maximilian via the marriage which would now be earlier than OTL so both could attack Venice; this might remove his invitation of the French that started OTL Italian wars)
 
Just to be clear I was implying that Francis's branch i.e. children would be whom the contract with Vladislaus for Anne & Louis would likely be arranged for if they are age appropriate

Bianca Sforza is too old for Francis by about 9 years so I don't think she'd be a candidate for him. If anything I think Max would arrange initially for Francis to marry Anne of Brittany she's older by 4 years.

Problem is Charles VIII of France won't allow it, still have the Habsburg encircling issue. So who is considered after the engagement is broken off
Margaret Tudor (b. 1489, OTL queen of France)
Elizabeth Jagiellon (b. 1482, like @Sventious21 suggested)
Helena of Moscow (b.1476, Frederick III considered marrying her for a Russian alliance agx the Jagiellons, the Tsar suggested Max instead, if Max declines they can always put up Francis instead)
Charlotte of Naples (b. 1479, unlikely but interesting)
One of his Bavarian cousins Sidonie, Sibylle or Sabina


This would free up Max to marry Bianca earlier if at all( Ludovico of Sforza might push for the an alliance with Maximilian via the marriage which would now be earlier than OTL so both could attack Venice; this might remove his invitation of the French that started OTL Italian wars)

Hmm interesting, considering my plans for the Tudors, I'd say Elizabeth Jagiellon, as part of the starting of alliances. Charlotte of Naples would be fascinating but might encorach later on
 
I vote for Elizabeth Jagellion as Francis wife. If Maximilian dies before 1515 then Francis becomes emperor, the electors arent voting for a teenager.
 
I vote for Elizabeth Jagellion as Francis wife. If Maximilian dies before 1515 then Francis becomes emperor, the electors arent voting for a teenager.

I agree, especially as Francis by this point would be an experienced commander and soldier
 
Would not Francis as the second son of Mary of Burgundy have a stronger claim to the Low Countries then his little nephew? Would not the burgundian courts want a adult in charge given the tumult that happened after Charles the Bold/Mary died?
 
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