Maximilian, Elector of Bavaria dies.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    What would be needed for Leopold to ignore his pride and grant the marriage?
     
  2. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    John III Sobieski nearly lost his life during Battle of Parkany, not long after Battle of Vienna. If he was killed there then perhaps Leopold feels a bit guilty that he mistreated Sobieski, but that is not most important-Sobieski dies in glory of defensor of Christianity, thus Jakub Sobieski on the wave of father's fame would be elected next King of Poland, thus he would not be mere nobleman in Leopold's eyes.
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Interesting, and if the pod happens to be 1688? What then
     
  4. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    After Vienna Sobieski's chances are gradually decreasing, but IMHO Jakub have to be King already to be seen as worth the hand of Archduchess, so his father need to die earlier anyway.
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So any time before 1696 then?
     
  6. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    Not any time, 1690s are too late (Jakub Sobieski was married since 1691). Earlier-better.
     
  7. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    I think there was a discussion at one point about Margaret Theresa having multiple surviving children and/or Claudia Felicitas having a surviving daughter. It was thought that maybe Leopold would be more inclined to consider the marriage of a younger daughter to Jakub.

    As for Maria Antonia it occurs to me that if both she and Charles II are widowed in 1689 there may be a strong impetus to marry them. Terrible idea, though Leopold might like it as it's all but certain that they'll have no kids so it ends Margaret Theresa's line at a stroke and puts a pro-Austrian Queen in Madrid to talk up Leopold's case.
     
  8. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Alrighty
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Interesting, though what do they do if Carlos is also dead
     
  10. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    Well if Charles is dead then the War of the Grand Alliance/Nine Years War becomes the War of the Spanish Succession. Leopold may not let Maria Antonia remarry if the Spanish proclaim her their Queen.
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh interesting, but would he get that right? Being as she is Queen in her own right and therefore not under his rule anymore?
     
  12. isabella Well-Known Member

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    No, I do not think likely a wedding between Carlos and Antonia as Mariana would not like much such wedding and neither Leopold as nobody thinked who Carlos would have lived as long as he had in OTL. Marrying Antonia to him would have only reinforced the position of Antonia as heiress (as she would pass from Queen Consort to Queen Regnant at the death of Carlos II). Plus in the unlikely situation in which Carlos still died at the OTL time and childless (he would likely die earlier and/or having children by Antonia as nobody will question the legitimacy of any her child as while Carlos would not be their real father would they would still have his blood) Antonia would be alive and not yet 32... she can very well remarry again and have children before her 40s...
    Pretty unlikely who Leopold will take this gamble (or who Spanish doctors will care to let live Carlos as long as OTL with Antonia as Queen).

    @Jan Olbracht @VVD0D95 If Leopold had a surviving son/younger daughter by Margarita or a surviving daughter by Claudia then Jakub will have good chances to marry a daughter of Leopold but not in the OTL situation
     
  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    niteresting
     
  14. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Well is pretty likely who Antonia will be able to get away from her father and once she is in her own kingdom Leopold will be able to do little for preventing her remarriage.


    The fact who Leopold think who marrying Antonia to Neuburg will lessen her chances to get Spain (almost impossible under almost any scenario) while that wedding in truth will make the Spanish Queens (his sister Mariana and his sister-in-law Maria Anna) agree who Antonia must be the heiress (unlike OTL where Mariana supported her great-grandson JF while Maria Anna supported their shared nephew Karl)
     
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  15. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Interesting, that's going to be messy then aha. I can also see Leopold's wife supporting Maria Antonia for the throne as well
     
  16. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    And then of course there are other options such as Georg of Hesse Darmsdat and Maximilian of Hanover, brother of George
     
  17. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    I thought about those two but their conversion to Catholicism came a bit later in the 1690s. Not sure it would work.
     
  18. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Ah this is very true, so Neuberg is probably the best option
     
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  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, what about this argument for Georg

     
  20. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    I guess the question becomes, why does he convert earlier than in OTL if not to marry her? Also would probably help if you kept him out of William III's service what with Orange being a protestant who deposed a Catholic. So maybe if instead he continues in Austrian service in the late 1680-90s. Conversion follows from that?