Maximilian, Elector of Bavaria dies.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Sep 5, 2019.

  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Somewhat related to one of my current timelines in An Unexpected Prince. Say Maximilian, Elector of Bavaria and husband of Maria Antonia of Bavaria died in 1689, what does this change? Who does Maria Antonia marry and assuming her son Leopold Ferdinand still died at birth what happens to Bavaria?
     
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  2. Brita A wanderer in the Lands of Uchronia

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    I know it happened in the 10h century but I'm not sure if it was still done in the 17th century: could Maxiilian's brother Joseph Clemens leave the Church and marry?
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I think he could, given the times it happened later with Rinaldo, Duke of Modena etc
     
  4. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Pretty likely as he will be the next Elector of Bavaria if his brother die childless but I do not know to which Antonia will remarry after the death of her first husband
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Would Louis perhaps suggest his nephew Philippe Junior?
     
  6. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Louis can suggest, Leopold will surely disagree and he is the one with the last word about his daughter’s wedding. Considering who Philippe jr is a Bourbon and five years younger than Antonia his chances to marry her are pretty low if not inexistent
     
  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Could Philip William of Neuberg, Leopold's brother in law be considered?
     
  8. isabella Well-Known Member

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    How close he was to Leopold? Surely a such match will prevent all the OTL discussion about succession in Spain between the two Queen Mariana as both will support the granddaughter of the first and the brother of the latter and their children over their shared Austrian nephew
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I'm not sure how close he was, but it does mkae the most sense. Indeed I can even see Leopold's wife, sister in law and former mother in law all suggesting it to him
     
  10. isabella Well-Known Member

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    I also think who that make sense but I am not sure of what Leopold will think
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I think he'd be pretty happy with it no? After all Neuberg is his brother in law, and as such an ally
     
  12. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the timing I think James Louis Sobieski may be put forward again. Leopold probably still won't like the idea but turning John Sobieski down, again, and then marrying Maria Antonia to a Neuburg would be pretty insulting. Especially since it was another Neuburg, Charles Philip, who stole away James Louis' other potential bride, Ludwika Karolina Radziwill. So the diplomacy surrounding her remarriage would get tricky.

    Also another marriage will probably renew the issue of her rights to Spain. She renounced them on the eve of her first marriage, though that wasn't generally accepted in Spain. So that issue will probably come up again as they negotiate a new marriage contract.
     
  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Interesting do you know why Leopold objected to Sobieski
     
  14. isabella Well-Known Member

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    With Leopold you never know...

    Likely because Antonia was heiress of Spain. If she was remarried to Philip of Neuburg after Charles II of Spain remarried to Maria Anna of Neuburg, Leopold will not ask her to renounce again to Spain...
     
  15. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, despite the fact that the man just saved Vienna Leopold wouldn't deign to consider the match. I think it was a number of things; Sobieski being somewhat pro-French, not being of high enough rank (James Louis as son of an elected King born before his election wasn't like a Crown Prince in other countries) and worry that John would outshine Leopold (as savior of Christendom) and so not wanting to hand him further reward. And of course what would become of her inheritance rights.

    Since all of those issues still come into play in 1689 I'd say Leopold still balks at the proposal but turning it down a second time would have to be done with some delicacy.
     
  16. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So then do you think the Neuburg marriage is more likely?
     
  17. Vitruvius Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I kind of think there is logic to it. I think Leopold would want to marry her to someone who isn't a threat, someone who doesn't have a lot of resources with which to press a claim to Spain counter to his own. Neuburg fits that bill. Louis of Baden might as well, though he's older and poorer and lower rank, but loyal to the Emperor and his weaknesses might be seen as advantages in Leopold's eye, maybe. The couple could stay at Vienna, what with Baden having been so thoroughly devastated by France and Leopold could keep and eye on them and their kids.
     
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  18. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Neuburg will be fully supported in Spain being the brother of Queen Maria Anna so that will put both Queen fully in the Neuburg camp... Still is a pretty likely miscalculation by Leopold. Baden is still less likely...
     
  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Oh what would make it a miscalculation?
     
  20. Jan Olbracht Well-Known Member

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    Sobieski was pro-French, but he was also opportunist and would switch to Imperial camp without hestitation if Emperor offefed better deal ( hand of Archduchess for his son and Duchy of Opole for them would be such better deal).
    What played bigger role was Leopold's pride (he was jealous of Sobieski's fame after Battle of Vienna and looked him down because he was not of Royal blood).

    Sobieski married to heiress of Spain is doable (I did such scenario once:

     
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