Maximal Islamic Expansion

What if the Muslims defeated the Byzantines, Franks and North Indians in the 7th and 8th centuries?

Southern France, Anatolia and the Indo-Gangetic plain are conquered.

Al-Andalus, with Southern France, and Persia, with northern India will break away from the Caliphate as in OTL.

Will the butterflies become extreme or will this timeline mostly converge with OTL?
 
What if the Muslims defeated the Byzantines, Franks and North Indians in the 7th and 8th centuries?

Southern France, Anatolia and the Indo-Gangetic plain are conquered.

Al-Andalus, with Southern France, and Persia, with northern India will break away from the Caliphate as in OTL.

Will the butterflies become extreme or will this timeline mostly converge with OTL?

Extreme butterflyification.
 
An expansion like that, during the 7th and 8th centuries?

With such a massive expansion, they would overextend the Caliphate and its resources so much that the Caliphate and Islam could very well end up doing worse because of it.

Just think of what happened to the Byzantine Empire as a result of Justinian's conquests, except that this is on a much bigger scale.
 
An expansion like that, during the 7th and 8th centuries?

With such a massive expansion, they would overextend the Caliphate and its resources so much that the Caliphate and Islam could very well end up doing worse because of it.

Just think of what happened to the Byzantine Empire as a result of Justinian's conquests, except that this is on a much bigger scale.
That's exactly what I was thinking. A kind of 'Rise and Fall of Islam' so that by the early 21st century, their world looks nothing like ours; i.e. Islam turned in on itself and is no more.
 
You think the Muslims conquering France, the Byzantine Empire, and India could possibly lead to convergence? :eek::eek::eek:

That would pretty much do in Christianity, wouldn't it?

What if the Muslims defeated the Byzantines, Franks and North Indians in the 7th and 8th centuries?

Southern France, Anatolia and the Indo-Gangetic plain are conquered.

Al-Andalus, with Southern France, and Persia, with northern India will break away from the Caliphate as in OTL.

Will the butterflies become extreme or will this timeline mostly converge with OTL?
 
You think the Muslims conquering France, the Byzantine Empire, and India could possibly lead to convergence? :eek::eek::eek:

That would pretty much do in Christianity, wouldn't it?

Well, not quite... but it would certainly move it to "marginal at best."

...Islam VS Lithuanian Paganism! :eek::D

......Why don't we have more Lithuanian Paganism TLs? :(
 
Well, not quite... but it would certainly move it to "marginal at best."

...Islam VS Lithuanian Paganism! :eek::D

......Why don't we have more Lithuanian Paganism TLs? :(

If the Byzantines go there's not a lot to shild anything between Constantinople and Vienna, and when the Rus are looking for a religion, it's going to be Islam.

Likewise, moving out of Iberia, there's not a lot to stop them. Add to that India and they are going to totally predominate in military power and control over trade. With the deeply Christian parts of Europe under Islam you're left with largely pagan or only superficially Christian areas. Christianity virtually disappears except as a minority religion in the Mediterranean world.
 
Well, not quite... but it would certainly move it to "marginal at best."

1)...Islam VS Lithuanian Paganism! :eek::D

2)......Why don't we have more Lithuanian Paganism TLs? :(

1) That'll be cool :cool: !

2) Agree ! But I think a Muslim Lietuva would be also interesting ;):cool:
 
An expansion like that, during the 7th and 8th centuries?

With such a massive expansion, they would overextend the Caliphate and its resources so much that the Caliphate and Islam could very well end up doing worse because of it.

Just think of what happened to the Byzantine Empire as a result of Justinian's conquests, except that this is on a much bigger scale.

That was one thought.

You think the Muslims conquering France, the Byzantine Empire, and India could possibly lead to convergence? :eek::eek::eek:

See above.
 
Let's say Islam did succeed in converting europe.

IMHO, the diversions from OTL would be restricted to details, since Islam tends to absorb the local culture where it spreads instead of opposing it (Turks, Indians, Africans etc.) and christianity as we know it was still evolving at the time. If islam was the dominant religion, europe would see Muhammed as a successor to Jesus (as the muslims do today) and in time, with the inevitable fall of the caliph (or the creation of anti-caliphs), decentralize. Apart from the muslim sects (sunni etc.) you would have european ones (considering the french would definately to find a 'halal' way to drink wine). The Islamic Renaissance of the X-XI. centuries would be connected to a euro-islamic one (roughly at the same time as OTL renaissance). A latin Koran "Sanctus Recitation" would be the mainstream one (just as the greek translation of tanakh became mainstream) along with borrowed arabic words. Finally an islamic reformation (allowing iconoclasm for example) would occur.
 
Ignore everything besides the Caliphate.

The_world_in_750_CE.jpg
 
I tisn't likely, in my opinion, that the Caliphate would have been able to extend much further - in all the areas it had conquered previously, there was some group that rose up against the ruling powers and invited them in. In the Franking Kingdom and the Byzantine Empire, there is very little internal strife.
 
Well, how long would that caliphate remain united? Wouldn't such a huge country simply break up, like with the Fitnae?

(Sorry, I just had to Latinise that Arab word; that wouldn't even be far-fetched in a Muslim-dominated world)
 
Well, how long would that caliphate remain united? Wouldn't such a huge country simply break up, like with the Fitnae?

(Sorry, I just had to Latinise that Arab word; that wouldn't even be far-fetched in a Muslim-dominated world)

Please don't ? I'm sorry but that just sounds.... weird....
 
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