Massively Multiplayer: Gaming In The New Millennium

Status
Not open for further replies.
Fall 2008 (Part 14) - An Indie Boost For Apple
Apple's successful first party library had helped elevate its market share to its highest level since purchasing Sega's gaming division back in 2003, but the company likely wouldn't have succeeded to the degree that it did without developing and supporting a reliable stable of independent game studios who inked a number of key exclusivity deals with Apple throughout the late 2000s and early 2010s. Apple began laying the groundwork for its indie revolution since even before the release of the iTwin and iPhone, and once those revolutionary devices were released, the seeds that Apple planted began to take root.

The first really successful studio that Apple supported in this era was PopCap Games. PopCap Games was a small company that primarily made puzzle titles for PC and Macintosh, and it was while creating games for the Macintosh that their studio caught the eye of Steve Jobs. In 2006, Jobs inked a deal with the company to make Peggle a timed exclusive for the iPod Play, preventing it from appearing on Nintendo's popular Game Boy Supernova, and establishing Apple's handhelds as the go-to place for addictive puzzlers. But it wouldn't be until 2008 that Apple's efforts to back PopCap would really pay off. Plants vs. Zombies was one of the most popular new indie titles of 2008. A "tower defense" game, in which players construct an army of plants to battle increasingly numerous waves of zombies, the game was instantly addictive and incredibly fun, with its marketable mascot characters and easy to learn gameplay. It first debuted on PC and Macintosh in the summer of 2008, but its console port was highly anticipated, and many players looked forward to playing it on the Supernova or the Xbox 2. However, it was Apple that swooped in and secured the game's exclusive console rights for the Apple brand. It would appear on the iPod Play and iPhone first, in late 2008, and would later show up in HD form on the Apple iTwin, but wouldn't appear on rival companies' machines until 2012. Plants vs. Zombies proved to be amongst the most popular iPod Play titles of the year, and even outsold the iPhone version for a time, though the convenience of being able to play the game on one's phone eventually propelled it toward becoming one of the most popular iPhone digital downloads ever. The game would even see a platforming sequel released on the iTwin in 2011, while PopCap would continue to create fun and addictive games for the iTwin and the iPhone, becoming a key second party to Apple during the iTwin years.

Then there was World Of Goo, another addictive indie game created by 2D Boy. A physics-based game, it asked players to construct bridges between various landmarks in order to transport balls of goo to the goal. This was another game that was very simply to learn, but also extremely hard to master, and was perfect for the simplistic control scheme that the iTwin could allow. It went on sale for $14.99 in the iTunes Store as an iTwin exclusive digital title in December 2008, but a version was also made available for the iPhone in 2009. World Of Goo became one of Apple's most popular digital offerings, and raised the profile of Apple's online store. The game featured a critically acclaimed soundtrack, and anyone who purchased the game for the iTwin also got a free iTunes album of the soundtrack that they could download and listen to on any deivce they so chose. These tie-ins between the iTunes game and music stores would continue, with Apple offering either free or discounted soundtracks for digital games with the purchase of said games. This drove composers in droves to Apple-affiliated game companies, knowing that their work would get plenty of exposure on the iTunes store. Not only did these composers create excellent game soundtracks, but a few of them would achieve fame as musical artists in their own right, creating techno and symphonic albums that would be promoted alongside the games that they worked on, with still others collaborating with established acts, such as the well-known collaborations between digital music creator Toby Fox and hip hop artist Pharrell Williams that became popular in 2015 and remain popular today.

The indie influences at Apple didn't stop with indie games. Apple themselves began asking indie developers to collaborate with their own established game studios. One of the most notorious and beloved such collaborations would be that of Edmund McMillen, best known for blisteringly difficult platformers such as Super Leek Boy, and Sonic Team, to create the renowned digital title Sonic's Ultimate Challenge. Combining the gameplay of classic Sonic with the amazingly tricky platforming that McMillen is known for, Sonic's Ultimate Challenge consisted of 150 levels ranging from extremely hard to groin-grabbingly impossible, packaged together at a budget price of $19.99. The game went on sale in 2011, and while it's not an official entry to Sonic canon, it remains one of the most critically acclaimed titles in the series, though it's somewhat polarizing to long-time series fans. There would be other collaborations, such as the aforementioned Toby Fox composing the score for a retro-styled Phantasy Star gaiden game. Apple was the first of the three major gaming companies of the time to truly embrace the importance of indie developers in the modern era of gaming. Just as they were the first to really push a digital storefront for games, Apple became an innovator in the industry, rolling with the tide rather than being swept away by it. Apple would be the first, but, as we all know, they wouldn't be the last, and the strength of independent game studios would help another hardware developer rise to prominence in the face of enormous competition.

-from an article on Games Over Matter, published on October 26, 2018
 
The indie influences at Apple didn't stop with indie games. Apple themselves began asking indie developers to collaborate with their own established game studios. One of the most notorious and beloved such collaborations would be that of Edmund McMillen, best known for blisteringly difficult platformers such as Super Leek Boy, and Sonic Team, to create the renowned digital title Sonic's Ultimate Challenge. Combining the gameplay of classic Sonic with the amazingly tricky platforming that McMillen is known for, Sonic's Ultimate Challenge consisted of 150 levels ranging from extremely hard to groin-grabbingly impossible, packaged together at a budget price of $19.99. The game went on sale in 2011, and while it's not an official entry to Sonic canon, it remains one of the most critically acclaimed titles in the series, though it's somewhat polarizing to long-time series fans. There would be other collaborations, such as the aforementioned Toby Fox composing the score for a retro-styled Phantasy Star gaiden game. Apple was the first of the three major gaming companies of the time to truly embrace the importance of indie developers in the modern era of gaming. Just as they were the first to really push a digital storefront for games, Apple became an innovator in the industry, rolling with the tide rather than being swept away by it. Apple would be the first, but, as we all know, they wouldn't be the last, and the strength of independent game studios would help another hardware developer rise to prominence in the face of enormous competition.

-from an article on Games Over Matter, published on October 26, 2018

Sonic Ultimate Challenge seems like its more of a descendant of Rover and Ring Guardians to me.
 
...Oh my God, the gods of ear worms unite. Also, three major game studios "of the time"...Microsoft is screwed, aren't they?

Just to play devil's advocate, it could mean that there's more than three in the future. The thread is called Massively Multiplayer after all.
 
Speaking of which, had the game industry ITTL have the massive problem of workaholic crunch time? And no unionization?

Because of the screw up with R and Tellate going under...
 
You fellas can just let me know when my Norfolk Southern steam ideas can be posted.

Honestly, if all it covers is trains, you could probably just go ahead and post it now. I didn't see anything pertaining to any other events in what you sent us, so you're welcome to post it whenever you'd like.

Yep just as I feared. Apple is bad for Japanese game development.

Not necessarily. Apple is seeking out younger developers, and they could be American, Japanese, European, etc. They're just looking for new perspectives in game design, and they're neglecting the old brass, most of whom happen to be Japanese.

Hopefully the success of games like the Three Mile Island series would prevent the Video Game Industry from arbitrarily declaring survival horror games “dead” like they did in OTL.

The Lobotomized was the consensus Game of the Year in 2006, so I doubt survival horror will be going away any time soon. Three Mile Island helps the genre's case but it was already faring somewhat better than IOTL.

So, it's fall 2008. We're a few months into the That Guy With the Glasses era of internet reviewing. How's the start of the site looking?

Probably about the same as IOTL.

Sonic Ultimate Challenge seems like its more of a descendant of Rover and Ring Guardians to me.

Mmmm, it'd be closer to those two, yes, but it's a 2-D side scrolling game, which neither of those was. The format of the levels is similar though.

Speaking of which, had the game industry ITTL have the massive problem of workaholic crunch time? And no unionization?

Because of the screw up with R and Tellate going under...

Funny you should mention that, because in the 2008 year in review post hopefully coming next week, you'll learn how Ted Crosley won his Peabody Award...
 
Funny you should mention that, because in the 2008 year in review post hopefully coming next week, you'll learn how Ted Crosley won his Peabody Award...
He exposed several game companies for their horrible labour practices and working cultures, with high turnovers, massive crunch time, toxic work environment and just general awfulness?

Some may be left out but yeah I can guess the theme of what he won for...
 
BONUS: An Alternate Norfolk Southern
Norfolk Southern 21st Century Steam: An Overview

Three years before 2008 in 2005, the Norfolk Southern Railroad had recieved a new chairman, Charles "Wick" Moorman.

A long-time railfan, Moorman was going to give the railroad a renewed interest in its history and heritage. This began in 2007 when the company unveiled a fleet of restored F units to power its business train. These locomotives wore a beautiful livery inspired from the old Southern Railroad's Green scheme. During the summer of 2008 the railroad officially announced its intentions on June 30th that through a partnership with the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum (TVRM) it would launch the all-new "21st Century Steam Program." At that time the designated locomotives to operate included Southern #630, Southern #4501, and Tennessee Valley Railroad 2-8-0 #610.

During the Labor Day weekend in 2008 #630 pulled the first excursions near the TVRM to celebrate the organization's 50th anniversary and officially kick off the steam program. This was followed by additional excursions over the next few months across Tennessee. A repeat of this event, along with employee appreciation excursions hosted by #630 helped mark Norfolk Southern's 30th anniversary in 2010. The year also witnessed the 4501 return to service after an extensive overhaul, which was followed by a doubleheader with the 4501 and 630 from Chattanooga to Atlanta. Additionally, Norfolk & Western 4-8-4 #611 was confirmed to be restored for the program that Summer.

611 was completed by May 2011, and her maiden run was from Spencer, NC to Washington DC. The Queen of Roanoke's return was lauded by the press, and plans to restore 2-6-6-4 1218 were made soon after. 1218 was going to be a tougher task as it didn't have many parts put back in after its aborted overhaul. However, the NCTM in Spencer, NC was able to have many part re-fabricated. The 1218 was ready to run again by July 2013, and ran a few fall foliage trips around Roanoke, Virginia that year before running a longer excursion to Atlanta via Lynchburg and the Carolinas.

In the Midwest, two more stars joined in on the fray, both former Nickel Plate Road engines. 2-8-4 765 lived at the Ft. Wayne Railroad Historical Society, and was ready to run for the program, starting with a trip on the former Wabash to Lafayette in 2012. 587 however was not as readily available, her owner the Indiana Transportation Museum had been moving from Noblesville to Logansport after an argument with the former city. But the FWRHS agreed to house the 587 for a restoration that was finished for 2014.

765's most notable trip included a series of trips over Pennsylvania's fabled Horseshoe Curve near Altoona where the big Berk ran wide-open with heritage Nickel Plate diesel #8100 and Mr. Moorman made headlines for being in the cab during some of these runs. The 765 also made numerous excursions over the former New York Central's Water Level Route from Cleveland to Chicago and numerous visits to the Northeast. Meanwhile, 587 mostly stayed in Indiana pulling excursions from her home-base in Logansport to either Fort Wayne in the east or Lafayette in the west.

The program has seen numerous major events. But the most iconic was in August 2014, when 611 ran from Roanoke to Chattanooga. From there it tripleheaded with 630 and 4501 to New Orleans then back to Roanoke over the route of the Southern mainline. Another major tripleheader was the re-enactment of the 587, 611, and 1218 tripleheader from June 1989. Only this time from Roanoke over the former Pennsylvania Railroad to Harrisburg.

As of 2018, Norfolk Southern and the steamer's owners have made plans for all the stara to meet for an event in either Cincinnati or Lynchburg. So far, the closest thing was in July 2017, when 765 and 1218 double headed from Cincy to Chattanooga to meet 4501 and 630.
 
Last edited:
Just to play devil's advocate, it could mean that there's more than three in the future. The thread is called Massively Multiplayer after all.
Oh, there's CERTAINLY more then three. Google's already planning something, and we know Samsung's gonna get involved. If I had to guess, i'd say sometime soon, around, let's say, Summer of 2009, Microsoft's gonna leave the gaming market, leaving a vacuum others will rush to fill. Maybe Valve could make their own console?
 
Fall 2008 (Part 15) - A Beautiful Space Adventure
(Authors' Note: The summary and concept of Selene were given to us by the reader jolou, I've made some adjustments and additions to what he sent us but for the most part this is his work apart from the summary of the game's commercial and critical performance.)

-

Selene

Selene is an adventure/RPG exclusive to the Nintendo Sapphire. Created by Arkane Studios and published by Valve, Selene plays somewhat similarly to the OTL Mass Effect games, with a bit of Fable 3 thrown in. It's a third person shooter, but with lots of RPG elements and open world gameplay, drawing some comparisons to Fallout: The Boneyard (though with a bit less customization/interactivity). Selene takes place in the year 2107, 38 years after a massive worldship named Selene departed from Earth. It had been sent to a new solar system with 20,000 colonists on board, representing many different races and ethnicities. The game's plot begins when a member of the Selene Appeasement Force, the ship's security forces, discovers during a typical crime investigation that the government who launched the ship has been engaged in deception and that the entire Selene Project may have had a much darker motivation. The ship is divided into several segments, including a European district similar to an old European city (mostly Paris), an American district with a strong Latin American influence that looks like a typical American suburb, a Chinatown-like district with some Japanese elements, a general residential district which houses citizens of other ethnicities (and is less well taken care of than the other districts, showing that the people who run the ship are biased against certain groups of people), a massive agricultural district, and then the Presidium, where the ship's government resides.

The game's main characters include...

Mathew Fullington (PC / European Union) : Son of Alexander Fullington, former chief scientist of the Selene Project . A 32 yearsold lieutenant in the SAF, he has never seen Earth and only had pictures to imagine how a world like that could exist. Curious, intelligent and charismatic he is also somewhat choleric and impulsive when he doesn’t get what he wants. He can thus have either a "good" or an "evil" personality, depending on the player's actions (like Renegade or Paragon in OTL Mass Effect).

Alexander Fullington (PC / European Union) : Father of Mathew Fullington . A renowned scientist on earth (and on the ship), he was the lead scientist during the creation of the Selene. Sometimes arrogant (when he explains something about science) but he is generally a very kind man and loving father who decides to take his retirement after his wife dies in an accident.

Elis Norell (Norway) : Secretary General . Sensible, Helpful, wanting to please , he is at first a beloved Secretary General who just got reelected for a second term in office, but after a particular event, he becomes more obsessive and perfectionist. He also becomes more cynical as the game goes on. He is the one who slowly transforms the society of the ship into a tyrannical technocracy but he still has a good side, and is only doing what he does for humanity's survival.

Rana Stora ( Egypt ) : Captain of the Ship . She is the reverse of Elis, if she appears cold to the players at first, she becomes more open, more sympathetic as the game advances and Elis starts to become a dictator. She doesn't lust for power, she truly wants a democracy and for humanity to decide it's own fate.

Chan Xeng (China) : Commissar . She will become one of Elis' closest allies, his second in command. A very cold women, very professional , who believes in a greater goal (Humanity above everything else and survival by any means).

Joe Clinton (USA) : Partner of Mathew Fullington and his close friend.

Indira Loke (India ) : Merchant and later head of the Resistance and a key love interest to Mathew. She loves the VR Simulation because she is an explorer at heart, and when she is locked out of it, she becomes heartbroker. Another part of her personality is that she wants to help a lot of people, it could be small tasks or more important things. This explains why she became the head of the resistance as she believed that she could help more people by putting a more democratic government at the head of the ship.

Selene features above average graphics for its time. Because of the scale of the game, graphical detail isn't quite top notch, though the segments on the ship in particular are very beautiful. The game's English voice cast consists mostly of American voice actors working in France (much of the same group that Ubisoft used to employ), though the company made an effort to get a multi-cultural cast to voice the game. The most well known actor working on the game is probably Aysha Selim, who voices Rana Stora (she voiced Ana in OTL's Overwatch).

The game starts in 2069, before the ship's departure from Earth. We are playing Alexander Fullington as he take a final training for combat on earth and that he is finalizing details about the ship. Then, he takes a shuttle, and similar to OTL Mass Effect: Andromeda's first scene, we see the Selene on the Spaceport, ready to leave. Then the flashback ends, and it’s revealed it was only Alexander speaking to an assembly celebrating the 38th anniversary of the departure . After this, we meet the Secretary General Elis Norell and we sympathize quickly with him, contrary to Rana Stora who comes off as very angry at first, as she disapproves of the speech. After that, we return home by traversing all the most important part of the ship, serving as the game's tutorial Alexander and Mathew both have a house in the European part of the ship. The tutorial ends with our first decision, showing the game's morality system. Mathew can choose to help an old man who take drugs by taking him to his house, or can turn him in to the SAF . The neutral option is that we just leave him here hoping that someone will take care of him. After this prologue segment, the game truly begins. The first part introduces the game's world properly, with Mathew going about his work as an investigator. There's a spectacular spacewalk segment as well, Mathew meets some of the other major characters while we also get the first hints that Elis isn't entirely as good as he seems. The game's first 20 percent or so is fairly normal, showing life on the ship before the rebellion, where the most dastardly villains we face are basic criminals. The game's second major segment sees the beginning of strikes and revolts, and the SAF getting more tyrannical. A curfew is imposed. Mathew is given the task of investigating one of the rebel leaders, though he learns that the rebel is only contacting civilians and making small plans, but no terrorist attacks or armed resistance. Still, Mathew is ordered to arrest him, and this provokes riots and a harsher curfew. Censorship of the press begins to take place, and in a major event, Alexander Fullington, the protagonist's father, is killed. Mathew is forced to make a major choice that will determine much of the rest of the game: take the SAF's side and act on the official report, or side with the rebellion and investigate further. However, there is one final chance for the player to rejoin the SAF, after Rana tries to arrest Elis but is arrested herself. Mathew is given a mission to infiltrate the resistance, and can choose whether to report back to the SAF or join them for good. This second choice is irreversible.

The third chapter of the game will start Mathew off with either a mission to rescue Rana (if a part of the resistance) or a mission to attack the rebel base (if rejoining the SAF). On the resistance route, the player can either infiltrate the prison quietly or by force, depending on earlier missions completed. After the rescue, the resistance launches a major revolt, and Mathew fights alongside Rana and their allies to take Elis down. Elis, however, surrenders without a fight once the player reaches his inner sanctum. He explains why he had to be so harsh, and reveals that he got a message revealing that Earth got invaded by an Aliens Race and that several governments of the Earth knew it in advance. It is the reason the ship was launched. He wanted to be sure that as many humans as possible could survive and also to prepare for the inevitable alien attack. A signal was received, indicating the presence of an alien ship, and Elis has been preparing for his defense, revealing a secret weapon to defend it: a small army of robots and massive laser turrents. If Mathew remains with the SAF, he leads the raid on the rebel headquarters to take down the leader, Indira Loke. If Mathew was dating her before his decision to rejoin the SAF, she will give a tearful speech about how he is aiding tyranny before flinging herself to her death, but if he wasn't, then she'll go into custody quietly. Either way, once Mathew returns after completing the mission, Elis will give him the same speech about the alien threat. Then, the next segment begins: Mathew is the second in command of the ship, under Elis (SAF path) or Rana (resistance path). If following the SAF path, Mathew's stats will increase if he continues along that path, following choices consistent with the Technocracy options (regardless of if they're "good" or "evil"). If following the resistance path, Mathew's stats will increase in line with that path. However, whichever path the player chooses, their stats and character relationships are damaged if he makes choices that oppose that path, forcing him to remain somewhat consistent or suffer difficulties along the way. The fourth chapter begins with Mathew searching a resident's room and realizing that the citizen might have been collaborating with the alien invaders, either by choice or by brainwashing. If Mathew completed a mission beforehand associated with that resident, the player will have more time to prepare for the alien invasion (more side quests can be completed to earn more power ups, loot, and recruits). Regardless of the result of the mission, Mathew will send what he learned to the scientists, who determine when the aliens will arrive. Mathew can then choose to either rebuild the destroyed segments of the ship (from the civil war earlier), or abandon those sections and fortify the rest. Rebuilding the ship improves Mathew's reputation with the citizens, but it also means that more of the will die in the upcoming battles. Mathew can make other choices during this time: teach all civilians to use arms, or concentrate training on those who are already soldiers? Devote more funds to the ship's farms, or to the research facilities? All of these choices will result in different civilians living or dying, and the player can get to know pretty much every single person on the ship, so it's up to the player to decide to save as many as possible (resulting in a more difficult final battle), or deem some as expendable. After enough time passes, the alien attack on the ship begins with a massive cutscene. The final battle itself takes several phases and consists of the defense of the ship's various sections, in which Mathew personally participates in the battle alongside whatever comrades you've picked up along the way. The first part of the final battle is the section by section defense of the Selene itself, and the second part of the battle, after the aliens are totally cleared from the ship, is launching a shuttle to attack the aliens' ship. The attack on the aliens' ship has the feel of a suicide mission, with waves and waves of soldiers dying. If you've upgraded the robot soldiers enough, they'll suffer most (but not all) of the casualties. The battle ends with the humans planting a nuke on the alien ship, and escaping via the use of an alien shuttle. The nuke doesn't destroy the alien ship, but leaves it severely crippled, and ends the alien threat at least for now. The game ends with Elis or Rana talking to Mathew and thanking them for saving the last bastion of humanity, then leaving Mathew alone to contemplate the stars that humanity still strives to reach.

Selene is considered one of the Sapphire's most hyped 2008 titles by the gaming media, but not quite so much by mainstream gamers, who consider it to be a bit too artistic compared to a lot of other Sapphire launch window titles. It's released on October 21, 2008, to excellent reviews from the gaming press, averaging in the mid to high 8s. Critics praise the combat system and the degree of player choice, along with the large amount of well written NPCs, but criticize the voice acting (though some performances like Selim's stand out) and the somewhat anticlimactic alien battle (with some critics comparing the game to Full Metal Jacket, saying that the first half of the game is amazing but the second half not so much). Thanks to a smart advertising campaign and the positive press, the game sells well at launch, becoming one of October 2008's top selling new games, and remains a strong seller throughout the holiday season, becoming an early hit for the Sapphire and launching Arkane back into prominence. Though the game isn't quite in 2008's top tier of games either critically or commercially, it's very fondly remembered and cultivates a moderately sized and very devoted fanbase, who begin to hype up the game's sequel before it's even announced.
 

AeroTheZealousOne

Monthly Donor
digital music creator Toby Fox

Undertale an Apple exclusive? Microsoft is fucked.

Nothing was said about Toby Fox being a game developer ITTL IIRC, so the fate of Undertale hands in the balance. In spite of better sales to EarthBound here, the game itself does not become a cult classic without the terrible ad campaign, and this probably has minor ripple effects beyond (at the bare minimum) altering the story and core of Undertale as a whole. If The Halloween Hack isn't a thing in TTL, then Undertale can, to a degree, safely (and unfortunately) be understood as a non-entity in the Massively Multiplayer universe. But on the other hand, the incredibly horrid fandom's gone too, and as I always say here, take the good with the bad. (EDIT: The article is from 2018 ITTL, and since the game is not mentioned. I infer it's been completely butterflied unless it's stated otherwise.)

But on a more positive note, Toby Fox being relevant in this world makes me incredibly pleased nonetheless.
 
Last edited:
Nothing was said about Toby Fox being a game developer ITTL IIRC, so the fate of Undertale hands in the balance. In spite of better sales to EarthBound here, the game itself does not become a cult classic without the terrible ad campaign, and this probably has minor ripple effects beyond (at the bare minimum) altering the story and core of Undertale as a whole. If The Halloween Hack isn't a thing in TTL, then Undertale can, to a degree, safely (and unfortunately) be understood as a non-entity in the Massively Multiplayer universe. But on the other hand, the incredibly horrid fandom's gone too, and as I always say here, take the good with the bad. (EDIT: The article is from 2018 ITTL, and since the game is not mentioned. I infer it's been completely butterflied unless it's stated otherwise.)

But on a more positive note, Toby Fox being relevant in this world makes me incredibly pleased nonetheless.

It's not the creator's fault if the fandom around their product is full of toxic people.

It's always good to see independent creators find success.

While Undetale is butterflied the premise of a turn-based RPG that gives you an option other than causally murdering everyone in your path is still a good one.
 
Nothing was said about Toby Fox being a game developer ITTL IIRC, so the fate of Undertale hands in the balance. In spite of better sales to EarthBound here, the game itself does not become a cult classic without the terrible ad campaign, and this probably has minor ripple effects beyond (at the bare minimum) altering the story and core of Undertale as a whole. If The Halloween Hack isn't a thing in TTL, then Undertale can, to a degree, safely (and unfortunately) be understood as a non-entity in the Massively Multiplayer universe. But on the other hand, the incredibly horrid fandom's gone too, and as I always say here, take the good with the bad. (EDIT: The article is from 2018 ITTL, and since the game is not mentioned. I infer it's been completely butterflied unless it's stated otherwise.)

But on a more positive note, Toby Fox being relevant in this world makes me incredibly pleased nonetheless.
Or it comes out later. Also, in fairness, The Halloween Hack was terrible. Toby has stated he considers it something of an old shame from his days as a try-hard edgelord.
 
Last edited:
Or it comes out later. Also, in fairness, The Halloween Hack was terrible. Toby has stated he considers it something of an old shame fromhis days as a try-hard edgelord.
To be fair it gave Fox practice for the genuine nightmare fuel in the True Lab. Everyone's got to start somewhere.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top