Massive European war in the 19th Century

A belligerent Germany is probably the only thing that could fulfill the need of "On the scale of the Napoleonic Wars" though, or else we have a Crimean War Part 2? That's just what I think though. Germany in the alliance with Britain seems logical too, though I don't know how the French would react. But now Russia is doomed to an extremely humiliating defeat.

What we need is to expand the scope of the conflict, otherwise London's side of the conflict has it way too easy. Maybe the Russian commander in Turkestan decides on his own initiative to intervene in the Second Anglo-Afghan War. Russian commanders in Central Asia often did reckless shit like that; you could have General Kaufman die early and replace him with Mikhail Chernaev, his OTL replacement and a known loose cannon. Ayub Khan gave the British serious trouble on his own, and Russian support could make him too tough to handle without more troops than the British could spare. Regardless, Russia gets dragged into a war with Britain more or less against the Tsar's will. And considering the Tories are in power, London won't back down. Some prior POD work could have this coincide with war in the Sudan and maybe even another Sepoy mutiny, if Roberts' army gets massacred.

In the meantime, Russian diplomacy buys Austro-German passivity while they take another crack at Constantinople - in for a penny, in for a pound, no? That pulls in the Turks and possibly the French. The war goes badly enough for the Turks and their allies that Austria-Hungary and Prussia decide to intervene in Russia's favor, since they seem to be winning. That gives you a war involving everyone but Italy, and London could get them in by offering Trieste or something. It's also much less one-sided than the Crimean War, so it'll be sure to surpass the Napoleonic Wars in scale.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Three Emperor's League to settle the Eastern Question,

Three Emperor's League to settle the Eastern Question, Britain be damned?

By 1877-78, Germany is unified under Prussian primacy; Austria-Hungary has formed and so has "some" stability; Russia had had two decades to re-build after the last confrontation with the Turks (and their Anglo-French allies).

The Germans have no real interest in overseas colonies at this point, but in return for some adjustments in Austrian and Russian territories (presumably the Baltic and historic Poland in terms of Russia and Bohemia/Silesia in terms of Austria) are they willing to be benevolently "neutral" towards the Russians and Austrians in the Balkans? Does that keep the French - who are less than a decade out from 1871 - from becoming involved on the Turks' benefit? Do the French care about Constantinople at this point? Would a go-ahead for French action in Libya be enough to gain their cooperation?

Given the chance to "redeem" Christian territories in the Balkans, can the Austrians and Russians come to agreement over which power would get what? Can they get the Greeks to join in (sort of a proto-1st/2nd Balkan War), and are they willing to provide some gains to the Germans in Central Europe and the Baltic?

Give the above, do the British stand up with the Turks, or agree to come to the party to carve up the Ottoman Empire?

Thoughts?

Best,
 
We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too

We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.


:D
 
Russia's aims of getting Constantinople/Tsarigrad is really difficult to achieve though, so why couldn't they at least try to have a long term plan of letting one of the Balkan countries get Constantinople? A compromise of say, Greece getting Salonika and Bulgaria getting Thrace, falling short of taking Tsarigrad.
 

dead_wolf

Banned
I don't know how unique you want this war to be, but pre-1900 would likely mean a larger Russo-Turkish War of 1878-1879. In OTL the British warned the Russians to not attack Constantinople directly or else the British would take action. IOTL the Russians did the smart thing and decided to not attack Constantinople.

But what if they did?

Britain would come to the aid of the Turks and declare war on Russia. This is likely joined by France (at this point a republic). Depending on Russia's actions, Austria-Hungary may be forced to be allied to the British like the Crimean War, albeit now with a true alliance. Russia may appeal to Germany for aid at this point, and Germany would attack Austria-Hungary (The alliance had not been signed yet). This opens up a chance for France to attack Germany and attempt to reclaim lost territory. So the war is Germany/Russia vs Ottoman Empire/Austria-Hungary/Britain/France. Italy has no need to be an aggressor since France at this point hadn't claimed Tunisia yet. Though many want to claim Austro-Hungarian lands for their own, the presence of France discourages this idea. Italy remains neutral and waits for the post-war peace discussions to gain land.

I'm not entirely sure the republic would join in on the war. Beyond the fact that the Republic still isn't stable even seven years later, the Exposition Universelle is in full swing, and neither de Mac-Mahon nor Dufaure have the political will or capital to commit themselves to fighting in a war on the other side of Europe for no real gain. As well the republican left is incredibly open to the Russians, if for no other reason than they opposed the Germans, and they had just made huge gains in the 1877 elections - Dufaure was nominally one of their members.
 
We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too

We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.


:D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_(1877–78)

In OTL: The British sent a fleet of battleships to intimidate Russia from entering the city, and Russian forces stopped at San Stefano.

Not let assume that Russia negotiates a secret alliance with the German Empire (I know with Bismarck as chancellor not probable) and attack Constatinople nevertheless and manages to "free" the city - it was till 1453 a very important christian city - there are the roots of Russian Orthodoxy

After England and Austria.-H. declares war on Russia, Germany declares that it will join the fight against the allies of the cruel oppressor of christianitiy (the Ottoman Empire).

Goals of Germany: 1) get baltic provinces from Russia (important German minority lives there) as compensation for Russian dominance in the Middle East/ free hand with the former possessions of the Ottoman Empire
2) annexing Austria-Hungary, except of Galicia which goes to Russia, and Trento + Triest which go to Italy
3) smashing France, annexing parts of the industrial regions of Briey, Longwy and a coastal strip, making it impossible that it regains the strengh of a great power
4) convincing Italy to join the russo-german alliance, they can promise Italy parts of A-H. + parts of France (Nice, Corsica) as a reward

Goals of Russia: 1) annexing large parts of the Ottoman Empire + the Straits + Armenia + Constantinople
2) rebirth of Romania, Serbia and Bulgaria as Russian puppet states
3) getting a good strategic position against the British Empire, being able to threaten the Suez canal and Persia/India in the long term.

Goals of France: Regain Alsace-Lorrain, annex all german provinces left of the Rhine river, cripple Germany and prevent a strong united German Empire

summary: war between Russia+Germany+Italy+ Romania, Bulgaria, Serbia vs.

England + France + Austria-Hungary and the collapsing Ottoman Empire

I guess the western allies would lose in this bloody pre-WW1, but if the "CPs" do not manage to win quickly enough, maybe the British blockade could be quite painful ;)
 
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