Massive European Immigration To Africa?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by RandomWriterGuy, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. Raferty Well-Known Member

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    South Africa is possible if gold is discovered much earlier, which would draw in enough people to make alternative industries also develop, and eventually a critical mass would be reached where it became a destination in and of itself like Canada or Australia.

    Namibia is a desert, so I'd say likely no, but a longer lasting Kaiserreich or German Victory in WW1 would help. That, or if we want to get creative, a second Great Trek of sorts from the Afrikaner people, in reaction to a huge upscale in British colonization stemming from an earlier Gold Rush, and the annexation by franchise of the Boer Republics. The same would go for Algeria. If France loses either World War, expect a significant increase in immigration from mainland France.

    Rhodesia could see significantly more immigration if economic conditions in Britain are much worse. Kenya, likely not. Kenya also suffered from a pretty nasty group in charge of its colonization effort that alienated newcomers and often led to them leaving for other places, in addition to stirring up unrest from the natives, which also dissuaded settlement.
     
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  2. Warthog a product of cultural adsorption

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    This was true of more or less the whole continent. There were some sparsely populated areas, especially in the deserts, but no terra nullius
     
  3. Warthog a product of cultural adsorption

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    Rhodesia also had unrest, sparked by hut tax and cattle levy from Rhodes and team - major rebellions within 2 years of the first settlement
     
  4. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    What about "Odessa in Africa"?

    If South African boer government post-1948 favoured not only dutch, but also german immigration, maybe even with informal contacts between ODESSA and ex-OB, there would be a bigger german speaking and alt-right-winger minority in SA.

    Then, in a slippery-slope effect, racist kenia-whites post 1950s, OAS-peids-noirs post 1958, salazarians and francoist post 1975, die-harder rhodesians post 1978, klansmen post 1980s would immigrate there in an Reds!-Rohdesian-like country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  5. Ebanu8 Emperor of Abyssinia

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    All in all, a very messy affair.
     
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  6. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    Indeed.

    I toyed with the idea of a Chicago-boy'ed South Africa post-1975 economic meltdown: no apartheid but alt-neoliberal society...basically OTL SA, but in the 80s.

    But it disgusts me too much.
     
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  7. Ebanu8 Emperor of Abyssinia

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    Liberalism is never the universal solution.
     
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  8. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    Without start an anti-neoliberal flame, i toyed with a very dystopic scenario, a mix of institutional apartheid, pinochet-esque liberalization and Kirkpatrick's our-bastard policy...do you understand why it disgusts me?
     
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  9. Ebanu8 Emperor of Abyssinia

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    I'm starting to see why.
     
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  10. Raferty Well-Known Member

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    That would require the National Party to have vastly different lines of economic thinking. Their solution for literally everything was to create a new nationalized industrial firm and dump money into state owned infrastructure. They'd also do things like seize pension funds as proscribed assets and abrogate property at whim, practice agricultural protectionism to an extreme degree, and had heavy taxation requirements while hoarding gold. They always believed in stringent capital controls and indigenization (read: Broederbond members) requirements for foreign direct investment.

    It was about as far from neoliberalism as you can get.

    The Progressive Party, the only anti-apartheid force in parliament, was the only real liberal option then, as a classical liberal nonracial entity. It is also the only party from that era still represented in parliament through the current opposition DA, as the Nats, HNP, and KP have all dissolved or merged into other bodies
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  11. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    Indeed: they were also the only country to run an efficent syn-fuel company after the Nazis for the same reasons.

    But neoliberism is the best way to enforce economic inequality that, with a racist background, is the best way to "clean" apartheid without repeal it.

    Actually, thats exactly what happened IOTL (the easily readable source is No logo, but I could find scholar sources about it).

    BTW, your description of SA can be easily copy-pasted to describe Allende's Chile...

    EDIT: did you edit your post with the remark about PP?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  12. Coley Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the Rhodesians post WW 2 didn't want mass white emigration,that the elite liked the society they had,didn't want any messy white workingclass.If they had a different take,then post WW 2 displaced people's from Europe,Hungarians,Greeks in the fifties,many might have been drawn for opportunities in a favorable climate.In the sixties it might have been first choice for Europeans from Kenya,Uganda,Algeria,sort of like Stirlings New Virginia.
     
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  13. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    AFAIK, that is exactly what happened, although there was only british immigrati on, but is a doable problem.
    The real problem is/was, after UDI the Country fell in the Bush War: would you immigrate in a country where white pregnante woman were eviscerated (if you were not a psychopath, of course).

    If you like, my grandpa work in Cameroon with a whenwe and I know some stories: IDK if True or false, but they undoubtely cancel any interest in moving to Rohdesia.
     
  14. Masked Grizzly Well-Known Member

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    In the event the Portuguese in South Mozambique managed to establish a state roughly south of the Limpopo River (lets call it Laurentina), would it be in such a state's interest to join either South Africa or Rhodesia as an autonomous region? Whatever misgivings the Rhodesians had in mass white emigration post-WW2, potentially sharing a contagious border with Laurentina would provide landlocked Rhodesia with access to the Indian ocean.
     
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  15. Marius Member

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    An independent Cape could possibly have had a white majority, or possibly plurality at least.
     
  16. Marius Member

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    Neo-liberalism and liberalism are not the same thing.
     
  17. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    Yeah, this time it will works!

    BTW, you mean US liberalism o European one? The latter is neo-liberism/liberalism...or not-yet-armed-fascism as I prefer.

    Well, I started the flame. Sorry.
     
  18. Raferty Well-Known Member

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    Well, the entire point of the NP was to run SA along the interests of the Afrikaners. That is why the miner unions and guild type small business groups (with limited membership) along with the farmers were always the recipient of state largesse, while the middle and upper middle classes of the Afrikaners were buffetted by the civil service and nationalized industries. Inequality within the desired grouping wasn't really the objective; the advancement of its material interests were (DF Malan had stated that he wanted every member of the Mine Worker Union to have access to vacation and cheap domestic servants, for example)

    But SA even before sanctions, ran into the same issue that the UK, US, France, Israel, etc. ran into by the late 70s, which is that such a system is not sustainable when you blatantly ignore market forces, and is even less sustainable when you are excluding 85-90% of potential economic actors. It was only when PW Botha made small moves towards economic liberalism (because he saw that in a commodity exporting economy like SA, you will fail and fail quickly when investment dries up), that you saw a real break up along the NP's flanks. The HNP and KP both disagreed on political reform, but the KP wanted a genuine opening up of the market while the HNP wanted to double down on egalitarian ethnonationalism. The Nats stood for little besides perpetuation of itself by that point in time.
    Yeah I had forgotten to include that about the Progs. I find it odd how liberalism never really had a whiff of power at the national level. At the local level, the Progs and the DA have obviously been more successful than the Nats and ANC were,
    especially in Cape Town and Pretoria, but it has never translated to national popularity.

    It is interesting how many of the Nats ideas the ANC ended up copying. They are looking at bringing back proscribed assets, for example, and have a similar fetish for insourcing policies, ethnic favoritism, and nationalized industries (and bailing them out with public money).
     
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  19. Paolo Giusti Kaleckist-leninist

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    The more you talk, the more I feel I could change "SA" with "Chile" without a problem.
     
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  20. Coley Well-Known Member

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    If Rhodesia had access to the coast that might have extended its life,though it doesn't seem that the Rhodesian government was very adept at diplomacy or propaganda,right from the start. An upper house-( SENATE) with chiefs of the tribes,representatives from agriculture,business,universities.... Could have been likened to the House of Lords.Answering the hostile USA with videos of ghettos and Mississippi delta and the Reservations would have been a nice push back,who knows if they could last until Reagan and Thatcher came in.Then Rhodesia might be off the front page