Massacre at Mafeking?

What if instead of being relieved by British forces, the British column at Mafeking had been slaughtered and or captured by the South African force?
 
I think the British would have gotten a lot more serious, and a lot more harsh, in their treatment of the Boers. Would have made the concentration camp situation worse in my opinion.
 
Was the inventor of the Boy Scouts present at Mafeking?

Robert Baden-Powell led the garrison at Mafeking. He had already published Aids to Scouting, which was written for the military but became popular with boys in England. The book Scouting for Boys was not written until after Mafeking, and his first boy scouting encampment took place after that.

There were at that time many youth movements in England and in America. My guess, however, is that they would not coalesce into the world Scouting movement.
 
Robert Baden-Powell led the garrison at Mafeking. He had already published Aids to Scouting, which was written for the military but became popular with boys in England. The book Scouting for Boys was not written until after Mafeking, and his first boy scouting encampment took place after that.

There were at that time many youth movements in England and in America. My guess, however, is that they would not coalesce into the world Scouting movement.
So if he is captured or slaughtered, the scouts don't come about? Alright, I was thinking more politically, as I know the relief at Mafeking made for a great celebration in Britain.
 
Mafeking was a strange set-up. According to Pakenham: .."in September, when Smuts had proposed the blitzkrieg, ther had been only three small contingents of the British army close to the republis: 500 men of Baden-Powell's irregulars at Mafeking.. 400 ... at Kimbrley and 2,000 at Ladysmith.."

It could have been done immediately instead of a "real" siege.

On the other hand, there could also have been a dash to Durban, which probably would have succeeded in closing off Natal.

The Boer's did not want to go (much) beyond the frontiers as they still hoped for soem sort of solution, not taking into account that it was the least thing Milner wanted.

Also according to PakenhamL

Cronje's message to Baden-Powell, 29 October 1899:

"it is understood that you have armed Bastards, Fingos and Baralongs against us - in this you have committed an enormous act of wickedness ... reconsider the matter, even if it cost you the loss of Mafeking ... disarm your blacks and thereby act the part of a white man in a white man's war" Now, there were plenty of black people being affected by the war, both in concentration camps, where the conditions were even worse than in the "white" camps. Even today, the number of black people succeumbed is not known.

However, the farce was kept up:

"To Colonel Baden-Powell.

I see in the Bulawayo Chronicle that your men in Mafeking play cricket on Sundays and give concerts and balls on Sunday evenings.

In case you would allow my men to join in the same it would be very agreeable to me as outside Mafeking there are seldom any of the fair sex and there can be no merriment without their being present...

Wishing you a pleasant day,
I remain your obliging friend
S. Eloff. Commander of Johannesburg Commando

Reply:

"Sir,
I beg to thank you for your letter of yesterday.... I should like nothing better - after the match in which we are at present engaged is over. But just now we are having our innings and have so far scored 200 days, not out, against the bowling ofg Cronje, Snijman, Botha.. and we are having a very enjoyable game.

I remain, yours truly
RSS Baden-Powell

Mafeking should have fallen pretty fast. Any other commander but Cronje could have done it, any other commander but Baden-Powell would have lost it.

The Boer's went aboput it pretty half-hearted and Mafeking only got its reputation and significance because of the bravado.

Kimberley and Ladysmith were more important ( I believe), and had also it's number of characters: Rhodes in Kimberly, White in Ladysmith, etc. Churchill on the prowl.

If Mafeking had fallen early, I don't think there would have been any impact at all.

If it had fallen as a result of the siege, it would have hardened the sentiments in the UK even more, and I believe it was pretty bad already.

It could have ranked with Kabul and the other lost causes.

That said, I doubt there would be any slaughter of the white part of the garrison, but the black population would have been killed off.

Even Smuts was given to whole-sale murder of un-armed back people, the one's trekking home after being evicted from the mines.

So much for "white man's war"

Ivan
 
Aside from Baden-Powell wasn't the Prime Minister's son, Major Lord Edward Cecil Baden-Powell's Chief of Staff? (Also Winston Churchill's cousin Lady Sarah Wilson was there during the siege.

The massacre of these two individuals alone could have seen two of Britain's major political dynasties turn on the Boers.
 
The major plot difference in Shirley Temple's movie 'The Little Princess' is never written, the relief of Mafeking which is not at all present in the original story, and either follows the F.H. Burnett's book or get an entirely different Hollywood ending.
 
I think the major butterfly would be the loss of the international Boy Scouts movement. Even if Baden Powell survived, it's his heroic and successful stand at Mafeking which got enormous media coverage that gave him the prestige and credibility to build the scouting movement. When you think about the many millions of young men for whom scouting changed attitudes, ability, knowledge, and ambitions it could well have more butterflies than far more visible historical turning points.

Kind of like having the founder of a major university decide to do something else or an author of something extremely influential decide to write about something else to far less effect. Much more significant in many timelines than most decisions by politicians or military commanders.
 
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