Mass deportation of Poles to Tanzania

Could the German Empire deport large amount of its Polish population to the Tanzanian highlands

How many Poles could be sent there and would there be any major international outcry

What would be the percent of poles in Tanzania be

Would a minority Polish ruled state be likely in Tanzania


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Germanisation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germa...artitions#1871_until_the_Treaty_of_Versailles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf#Anti-Polish_aspect_of_Kulturkampf
 
If it goes good it will likely be a minority polish state with around
20% polish
80% Native

It would be good ally's with European Poland but as the Cold War ends and pressure mounts the Tanzanian plies would have to consent to majority rule

(Aka northern South Africa)
 
Removes undesirable minority group and makes the colony more profitable and unlike expelling them to Russia or Austria, sending them to Tanzania won't piss off them .

If you mean piss off the polish than you are deadly wrong. Also what you are proposing is a step on a very dangerous path. AFAIK the nazis initial plan was to deport the jews to Madagascar. When that wasnt an option came the endlösung. This is not a path that should be taken.

Also dont forget that a lot of those polish didnt want to be an undesired minority in Germany. It was Germany (or more precisly Prussia) that took a big chunk of their homeland and they werent asked about it. Try assimilating them or some such (just maybe create a system and circumstances where they are dont want to secede...) but phisical removal should not be an option.
 
If it goes good it will likely be a minority polish state with around
20% polish
80% Native

It would be good ally's with European Poland but as the Cold War ends and pressure mounts the Tanzanian plies would have to consent to majority rule

(Aka northern South Africa)

Germans would have to deport an utterly massive amount of Poles to have Poles consist of that large of portion of the people (given that native African birthrates will almost certainly be higher than Polish birthrates). The lands which make up German East Africa now have about 77 million people, Tanzania (minus Zanzibar which was British) has about 54 million people.

Removes undesirable minority group and makes the colony more profitable and unlike expelling them to Russia or Austria, sending them to Tanzania won't piss off them .

There's no way Poles wouldn't be pissed off by mass deportations to Africa where a significant amount will die from disease (although Tanganyika is more favourable for Europeans than Kameroon) or attacks by natives.

Not to mention a bunch of Poles ethnically cleansed to Africa aren't likely to make good allies against native Africans which is somewhat of a problem. But if you had to ethnically cleanse the Poles, then maybe also send some to Namibia.
 
If you mean piss off the polish than you are deadly wrong. Also what you are proposing is a step on a very dangerous path. AFAIK the nazis initial plan was to deport the jews to Madagascar.
I was talking about pissing off the Russian and Austrian empires and unlike the Madagascar plan , The German empire would have access to Tanzania from 1884 to 1914 and if it failed they could just try the Prussian Settlement Commission

Also dont forget that a lot of those polish didnt want to be an undesired minority in Germany. It was Germany (or more precisly Prussia) that took a big chunk of their homeland and they werent asked about it.
undesired minority in the sense that many German don't want there

Germans would have to deport an utterly massive amount of Poles to have Poles consist of that large of portion of the people (given that native African birthrates will almost certainly be higher than Polish birthrates). The lands which make up German East Africa now have about 77 million people, Tanzania (minus Zanzibar which was British) has about 54 million people.
Wouldn't large scale white settlement reduce the black birthrate and unlike Rhodesia or South Africa wouldn't a Polish ruled Tanzania be more accepting of white immigrants

significant amount will die from disease (although Tanganyika is more favourable for Europeans than Kameroon) or attacks by natives.
Aren't the highlands similar to Zimbabwe and South Africa in terms of favorable in white settlement

Not to mention a bunch of Poles ethnically cleansed to Africa aren't likely to make good allies against native Africans which is somewhat of a problem. But if you had to ethnically cleanse the Poles, then maybe also send some to Namibia.
Its not like they can make common cause with the Africans and try to throw out the Germans
 
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Germans would have to deport an utterly massive amount of Poles to have Poles consist of that large of portion of the people (given that native African birthrates will almost certainly be higher than Polish birthrates).
Would it? My four grandparents had fifteen children and they werent unusual for mid-20th century. Of course that's the Lesser Poland villagers for you. And Prussian partition doesn't had all that many Poles to begin with.

Not to mention a bunch of Poles ethnically cleansed to Africa aren't likely to make good allies against native Africans which is somewhat of a problem. But if you had to ethnically cleanse the Poles, then maybe also send some to Namibia.
It would be funny if the only effect of this policy was Poles and Africans rising together against Germans the second an opportunity arises.
 
Why not just have the Germans pursue language the same way the French did in eradicating Occitan and other languages
 
Why not just have the Germans pursue language the same way the French did in eradicating Occitan and other languages

The situations were totally different. There never was an "Occitan" state and there never really was an independent southern French state, and 19th French language policies were continuing what had been going on since the French Revolution. Meanwhile there was a formerly very powerful Polish state which had been abolished within living memory. Polish identity was far, far stronger than "Occitan" or any southern French identity, so such a policy would be bound to fail miserably.
 
The situations were totally different. There never was an "Occitan" state and there never really was an independent southern French state, and 19th French language policies were continuing what had been going on since the French Revolution. Meanwhile there was a formerly very powerful Polish state which had been abolished within living memory. Polish identity was far, far stronger than "Occitan" or any southern French identity, so such a policy would be bound to fail miserably.

Meanwhile all the Italian languages have been fairly marginalized
 

trajen777

Banned
As an example my family came to the USA from Heidelberg in the 1880's. The local town council paid for groups to leave the Germany and paid for transit. This was pretty common in the 1880's. So what you are suggesting has happened throughout history. Both in a voluntary and non voluntary situation :

Example ::: Greece Turkey in the 1920's :::::::::::::::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey..................

According to some calculations, during the autumn of 1922, around 900,000 Greeks arrived in Greece.[2] According to Fridtjof Nansen, before the final stage, in 1922, of the 900,000 Greek refugees a third were from Eastern Thrace, with the other two thirds being from Asia Minor.[3][4]. The estimate for the Greeks living within the present day borders of Turkey in 1914 is 2.115 million a figure higher than the 1.8 million Greeks in 1910 which included Western Thrace, Macedonia and Epirus. The Ottoman figures are 625,000 in Eastern Thrace including Constantinople (260,000, 30% of the population), 550,000 Pontic Greeks, 880,000 Anatolian Greeks and 60,000 Cappadocia Greeks. Arrivals in Greece from the exchanged numbered 1,310.000: 260,000 from Eastern Thrace, 20,000 from the southern shore of the Sea of Marmara, 650,000 from Anatolia, 60,000 from Cappadocia, 280,00 Pontic Greeks, 40,000 left Constantinople (the Greeks there were not required to leave) for a total of 1,310.000

So this is just one example of many many population transfers. So you take the new German polish areas and transfer the population to Tanzania, as seen above it can be done with carrots and sticks. Lets say Germany wishes to transfer 2,000,000 Poles to Tanzania :
1. Each Polish transfer gets 10 acres (or 20 acres)
2. Taxes or confiscation of land to "incentify" the Polish to move
3. From here it comes down to how aggressive the Germans wish to be to drive people out of the area (ie : carrot or stick)
 
19th century German Empire was nasty to Poles but massive deportations to Africa? It is too much! German Empire would turn into Europe's pariah. Even among Germans there would be strong opposition against such actions (propably strongest among Prussian junkers who would fear loss of workforce).
 
19th century German Empire was nasty to Poles but massive deportations to Africa? It is too much! German Empire would turn into Europe's pariah.
So would something like 30,000 to 100,000 poles per year over 30 years being sent to Africa cause Germany to be a pariah state because it doesn't have to be all at once
Even among Germans there would be strong opposition against such actions (propably strongest among Prussian junkers who would fear loss of workforce).
Couldn't they make up the shortfall with seasonal workers from Russia and Austria . They don't have to sent the whole polish population so something like half or 3/4 to turn them into a minority or reduce the percentage in areas like West Prussia and the Posen
 
Deporting a million Poles from Prussia seems technically possible, as that many Irish left Ireland during the famine there. The Germans would have to resort to the sort of brutality that the Russians routinely employed in Ukraine at the time, but it could be done. No one raised a big deal about the outright massacre of Ukrainian Catholics, or the deportations to Siberia.

The death toll, in transit and at the destination, would be severe, but survivable.

What would Polish Tangyanika look like? On one hand, resentment toward Germans will be fierce in the first generation, and those of a more intellectual persuasion might try to tie their exploitation by the European imperialists to that of the Africans. You could get an entire country with a White Savior complex, the Polish civilizing mission in the East transplanted to Africa. Something like Lusotropicalism with a Polish flavor. Heavy emphasis on teaching the natives Polish ways and culture.

On the other hand, they might start, as Poles did in America, to just view themselves as white and the blacks as rivals, enemies. That would be stronger in the generations with no memory of Poland. In that case, it would turn into a Slavic Apartheid State.

If most of Posen does become decisively German, I can see Poland getting only a very thin corridor after WWI. Poland will be poorer and less industrialized. Maybe Tangyanika will seek a formal union, or at least a customs union.

Interestingly, the Madagascar Plan actually originated in Poland, but was shelved both for moral reasons (it was understood to be just slow murder) and practical (Madagascar was French). But now, we have a Polish-speaking colony with room to grow and the infrastructure to take a greater influx of colonists—so perhaps Polish interwar nationalists will instead suggest a Tangyanika Plan, to shift Polish Jews into Africa. That could skew the ethnic ratio a bit further toward colonists in the 1920s and 1930s.
 
The death toll, in transit and at the destination, would be severe, but survivable.
Why would the death toll be any worse then people going to south Africa or Kenya

But now, we have a Polish-speaking colony with room to grow and the infrastructure to take a greater influx of colonists—so perhaps Polish interwar nationalists will instead suggest a Tangyanika Plan, to shift Polish Jews into Africa. That could skew the ethnic ratio a bit further toward colonists in the 1920s and 1930s.
I highly doubt that Poles in Tangyanika would very accepting of Jews
 
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