Mary Queen of Scots dies before marrying for a second time.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by VVD0D95, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:35 AM.

  1. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    So, this was something that popped into my head after watching Mary Queen of Scots-surprisingly good for a Hollywood movie, and surprisingly kept many details there!- assuming Mary dies in the 1560s before her marriage to Darnley and before she's had any children, what would occur with the succession?

    The Arrans were considered next in line, but the Earl's father's second marriage was considered illegitimate and therefore, the claim of the Earl and his family was considered illegitimate by those who opposed him. In that case, the Earl of Lennox and his kids were next in line, but they were also opposed by some as being English puppets.

    That then leaves James V's bastard sons, most prominently, Robert Stewart, Earl of Orkney and James Stewart, Earl of Moray.

    Now Moray had had some experience of ruling whilst Mary was away, and he was also quite popular.

    So, my question is this, would there be a succession war? And if so could Moray have a realistic chance of seizsing the throne? If so, what would the reactions be?
     
  2. WGSG Member

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    I believe that there was a clause in her marriage contract that stated that if she were to die with no heirs, then the crown of Scotland reverts to the French monarchy. So her brother in law charles would become the next king of Scotland, although the English certainly wouldn't be happy about it.
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    But would the Scots themselves even accept that? And would Charles himself even want the thing?
     
  4. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Elizabeth marries the Earl of Aran or Lord Darnley.
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    What would make her give up her avoidance of marriage tho?
     
  6. isabella Well-Known Member

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    No way. That clause would be valid only if Mary died without children before King Consort François...
    With Francis’ death that clause is gone and Scotland is again under its own rules of succession (is exactly the same story of Anne of Brittany and Charles VIII: if the bride died without children the husband inhereited her lands but if the husband died first the widow has again full control of her own inheritance)
     
  7. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Interesting, so likely it comes down to who out of Hamilton, Lennox and Moray can muster the most support and take the throne
     
  8. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Yes... Civil war almost guaranteed...
     
  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Intriguing. I reckon Lennox will try and arrange a marriage to Moray's daughter to get him onside.
     
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  10. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    That could work. Moray can't take the throne in his own right, being a bastard, but his daughter becoming Arran's Queen? Now that would be doable..
     
  11. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Could he not try and take it by right of conquest? And that's very true. Marry Charles Stuart to Moray's Elizabeth, and some things would be sorted there. With Moray onside, Lennox could be a lot more secure in handling mad Jaime.
     
  12. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    He could, but he would only ever be seen as a usurper, whereas the other way, no one would question his grandchildren's rights...
     
  13. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Very very true, and of course his grandchildren would have that handy claim to England as well, through Margaret Douglas as well.
     
  14. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    All the better...
     
  15. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    Ohh I'm getting ideas for another timeline now aha. Elizabeth would be paranoid as anything I imagine
     
  16. isabella Well-Known Member

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    Why Charles? For both Lennox and Moray would be better a wedding between Henry, who is the heir, and Elizabeth
     
  17. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    True true though Henry night we’ll be dead. And there’s quite the age gap between Henry abd eliabeth here
     
  18. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    I agree with @isabella, Moray and Lennox have to wed their heirs to one another if they want to merge their claims to the throne in the next generation. So, age gap or not, Elizabeth is marrying OTLs Lord Darnley unless he dies before she is of age to marry him - which I guess is possible.
     
  19. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    This is very true, so perhaps Mary dies in 1564 then? Before her marriage to Darnley. Thus a child marriage for Darnley, allowing him to sow some oats around before his wife is old enough to consumate one assumes
     
  20. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    That could work.
     
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