Mary of Burgundy Goes French

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mary of Burgundy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mary (February 13, 1457 – March 27, 1482), duchess of Burgundy, was the only child of Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy, and his wife Isabella of Bourbon.

As the only child of Charles, the Valois heiress of the rich Burgundian domains, her hand was eagerly sought by a number of princes. When her father fell upon the field at the siege of Nancy, on January 5, 1477, Mary was not yet twenty years of age. Louis XI of France seized the opportunity afforded by his rival's defeat and death to take possession of the duchy of Burgundy as a fief lapsed to the French crown, and also of Franche Comté, Picardy and Artois.

He was anxious that Mary should marry the Dauphin Charles and thus secure the inheritance of the Low Countries for his descendants, by force of arms if necessary. Mary, however, distrusted Louis; declined the French alliance, and turned to her Netherland subjects for help. She obtained the help only at the price of great concessions. On February 10, 1477 at Ghent she was compelled to sign a charter of rights, known as "the Great Privilege," by which the provinces and towns of Flanders, Brabant, Hainaut, and Holland recovered all the local and communal rights which had been abolished by the arbitrary decrees of the dukes of Burgundy in their efforts to create in the Low Countries a centralized state on the French model. Mary had to undertake not to declare war, make peace, or raise taxes without the consent of the States, and not to employ any but natives in official posts.

Such was the hatred of the people to the old regime that two influential councilors of Charles the Bold, the Chancellor Hugonet and the Sire d'Humbercourt, having been discovered in correspondence with the French king, were executed at Ghent despite the tears and entreaties of the youthful duchess. Mary now made her choice among the many suitors for her hand, and selected the Archduke Maximilian of Austria, after-wards the emperor Maximilian I, and the marriage took place at Ghent on August 18, 1477. In this way the Low Countries came to the Hapsburg's, initiating the long period of contention between France and Austria for their possession, which climaxed in the War of the Spanish Succession, 1701–1714.

So what if Louis XI had succeeded, and In 1477, at the age of 17, the Dauphin Charles VIII Marries the 19 year old Mary, And a Year Later Louis XII is born, Heir to both France & the Low Countries.
 
So what if Louis XI had succeeded, and In 1477, at the age of 17, the Dauphin Charles VIII Marries the 19 year old Mary, And a Year Later Louis XII is born, Heir to both France & the Low Countries.

I'm gonna go out on a limp here an suggest that France is bigger and that the low countries become more french. :D
 
The Netherlands would have to fight their war of independance against the French instead of the Spanish. Given that France had a civil war around the time of OTL's eighty Year's War, the odds are actually not that bad. Or it might just mean the Huegenot position in France is greatly reinforced, with the Netherlands going Protestant.
 
Originally Posted by IndigoYeti
Charles was actually 7 in 1477.
Oops-- thanxs for catching that. Guess there will be no Louis XII born in 1478 then, Let me go back and change some stuff in my TL.
 
If the French get the whole of Burgundy, that will mean an instant war with the Habsburgs - as OTL when the Habsburgs got it. If they can keep the major parts, which are Brabant, Luxembourg, Holland and Sealand, France would be the strongest country of the time by far: You would ahve united the economic growth of the Netherlands with French power of OTL.

Probably the Habsburgs were not able to fight France as they did OTL thanks to Burgundian money. After all, taxes from the Netherlands were more important than everything they got from the Americas. I'd say that pretty soon a French king would become Holy Roman Emperor - they tried several times but the Habsburg bribery was better than theirs.

Reformation would be an interesting thing, though. This Timeline, the French would face a lot more Protestants in their own lands. OTL, France frequently helped the protestant side. I doubt that they would do the same when their richest provinces are protestant and try to get independent. Or do they get more tolerant?
 
Oops-- thanxs for catching that. Guess there will be no Louis XII born in 1478 then, Let me go back and change some stuff in my TL.
I didn't mean to rain on your idea. Louis XI had a son born in 1458 that died young. Just have him survive and he'd be the perfect age to marry Mary.
 
1500~~

Mary didn't fall off her horse in 1482 and break her neck, so somewhere in the 1490's, she gives birth to Louis XII.
Since Charles is still married to her, he can't force Anne of Brittaney to Annul her marriage to Maximilian {HRE} So Brittaney is part of the HRE.

France is at war with Spain over Italy,
Maximilian takes his troops that have spent the last 30 years Pushing the Ottomans, out of the Balkans [allied with Hungary] and attacks into the low Countries.

EUROPE IN 1500

Europe_in_1500.PNG
 
Things would become even more ironic if Spain does realpolitik and helps the Protestants.

Yeah.

But that means that the Habsburgs didn't get Spain either. So no "tu, felix austria, nube"? Habsburg Spain would not help the Protestants, I think.

Anyway, would the Habsburgs be as anti-French as OTL? OTL, France was against Habsburg because Habsburg controlled pretty much all its Frontiers: the South in Spain, the West in Franche Comte, the North in the Netherlands, then the HRE and Italy. ITTL, that wouldn't be the case. They'd only share a very small frontier in lower Alsace and Spain. French expansion would affect mainly Protestant German princes, Switzerland or Savoy. The first two are enemies of the Habsburgs anyway.

And then we still have the possibility of a catholic, french Emperor.
 
Without Burgundy, Austria wouldn't be as rich as OTL. So they're not really on a level with Spain. Difficult - who else might be?
 
Without Burgundy, Austria wouldn't be as rich as OTL. So they're not really on a level with Spain. Difficult - who else might be?

Well I still have a United Sandia, But they will be locked in with Russia for the next several centuries.
I have a enlarged Poland/Lithuania, but they will have problems as OTL holding together.
Austria has the north end of the Adriatic. but the whole region is in bad shape, and needs rebuilding.
Aragon is in war with France, and will probably lose, allowing France to dominate the Western Mediterranean.
Portugal/Castile [Juana won when the king of Aragon lived a little longer, and Prince Ferdinand wasn't able to aid Isabella] But they are focused on Africa. Columbus will sail for France.

This leaves Hungary almost by default as the potential other Great Power. ?Anyone think, that they will be able to hold their new Black Sea territories?
I didn't mean to rain on your idea. Louis XI had a son born in 1458 that died young. Just have him survive and he'd be the perfect age to marry Mary.

Have to go back and look this up, But thanx for the help.


OTL there is very little evidence for Richard III's being accused of killing the Princes. At the time of the Tudors take over there were a half dozen People with a strong a claim as Richard to the Throne. And Richard was accepted as Regent for the Princes. Within several years all of these were either Dead or in Exile. within two Decade, almost all the Plantagenet's were gone.

Marlone's History of the Tudors was, Deliberatively never finished. Many Historians believe because of, this distortions.

?So What effects do whe see from a Richards Survival, and the Continuation of the Plantagenet Line? Richard III followed by the Young Edward V.
 
Without Burgundy, Austria wouldn't be as rich as OTL. So they're not really on a level with Spain. Difficult - who else might be?

Well, Austria got burgundy only in 1493 after the division of the lands. 1496 the son of Maximilian I married a princess of Spain - not the heiress. It was only due to a "lucky death" of the real heir that he became heir of Spain. Of course, without burgundian heir they woudln't be as rich, but even a weaker Habsburg could be good enough for a second princess.

And after all, his father was the Emperor, and could be the emperor even without burgundy, and the Empire has not yet lost all of its glory. Thus Austria is not that way below spanish glory.



Anyway, an interesting idea would be to arrange the marriages in such a way that France inherits Spain, too. Maybe let the french king use its new inherited wealth to become Emperor. We'd had an empire even larger than Charles V.
 
OK Chris is sailing for France.
Hispaniola becomes the Ilse of St Joan, Cuba becomes Louisiana. ?How about Porto Rico? ?Any suggestions for the Names of the Settlements?
 
@Homer: I had to think that maybe the royal family of Hungary and Bohemia is so lucky to inherit Spain and its empire... so Spain still has to fight the Turks and is drawn into the affairs of the HRE...
 
@Homer: I had to think that maybe the royal family of Hungary and Bohemia is so lucky to inherit Spain and its empire... so Spain still has to fight the Turks and is drawn into the affairs of the HRE...

OK: I have to agree that's far more interesting than a Spanish-French union!

I think Spain would concentrate on the Ottomans, though, and not interfere too much with HRE-affaires. The Turks would be their greatest enemy in all their possions - beside the Americas, of course.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top