Martin RB-57 vs. Lockheed U-2

Delta Force

Banned
The Martin RB-57 (a variant of the Martin B-57 bomber) and Lockheed U-2 were two impressive reconnaissance aircraft that entered service around the same time. In fact, the RB-57D model entered service shortly before the U-2 in order to fill a capability gap, and the later RB-57F variant remains in service today with NASA as a high altitude research platform.

The RB-57 has a much payload capacity than the U-2, as well as a higher speed and larger wing area. I think the U-2 has a higher altitude however, at 84,000 feet compared to around 82,000 feet for the RB-57. I'm wondering how it might have fared if it had been adopted more widely, filling the role originally intended for the U-2.
 
The Martin RB-57 (a variant of the Martin B-57 bomber) and Lockheed U-2 were two impressive reconnaissance aircraft that entered service around the same time. In fact, the RB-57D model entered service shortly before the U-2 in order to fill a capability gap, and the later RB-57F variant remains in service today with NASA as a high altitude research platform.

The RB-57 has a much payload capacity than the U-2, as well as a higher speed and larger wing area. I think the U-2 has a higher altitude however, at 84,000 feet compared to around 82,000 feet for the RB-57. I'm wondering how it might have fared if it had been adopted more widely, filling the role originally intended for the U-2.

The RB-57D was built for combat, with armor installed at the insistence of AF brass, and that limited its altitude to 64,000 feet. The F can get to 82,000 as fuel burns off.

As for adoption, the AF could have used the aircraft more in the strategic reconnaissance mission, but the issue of wing cracks and other structural issues would have required replacement by the U-2 in any event. NASA still uses the F.
 
the RB-57F model had some serious issue
first it was not build by Martin, but by it Maintenance firm General Dynamics, who convert existing B-57D by adding bigger wings and
replacement of the Wright J65 turbojets with Pratt & Whitney TF33 turbofan engines what gave double thrust.

some thing the B-57D fuselage was not design for, leading to Cracks in Wing and fuselage.
Other Issue were: the big radar blips the B-57F produce compare to slender U2, the use of four camera pods under B-57F wings, while CIA prefer one Package system in Fuselage and poor ECM system of RB-57F.
 

Delta Force

Banned
The RB-57D was built for combat, with armor installed at the insistence of AF brass, and that limited its altitude to 64,000 feet. The F can get to 82,000 as fuel burns off.

As for adoption, the AF could have used the aircraft more in the strategic reconnaissance mission, but the issue of wing cracks and other structural issues would have required replacement by the U-2 in any event. NASA still uses the F.

Didn't 1950s and 1960s USAF aircraft have structural issues in general, especially the bomber and tanker designs?

the RB-57F model had some serious issue
first it was not build by Martin, but by it Maintenance firm General Dynamics, who convert existing B-57D by adding bigger wings and
replacement of the Wright J65 turbojets with Pratt & Whitney TF33 turbofan engines what gave double thrust.

some thing the B-57D fuselage was not design for, leading to Cracks in Wing and fuselage.
Other Issue were: the big radar blips the B-57F produce compare to slender U2, the use of four camera pods under B-57F wings, while CIA prefer one Package system in Fuselage and poor ECM system of RB-57F.

An RB-57 could carry more reconnaissance and ECM equipment though, and if it comes under attack it is a less vulnerable target due to its better speed, maneuverability, and armor. There's also a second crew member who can operate the reconnaissance and ECM equipment.
 
the RB-57F model had some serious issue
first it was not build by Martin, but by it Maintenance firm General Dynamics, who convert existing B-57D by adding bigger wings and
replacement of the Wright J65 turbojets with Pratt & Whitney TF33 turbofan engines what gave double thrust.

and to start with it was a design that came from English Electric
 

fred1451

Banned
Would it really be a good idea to be sending aircraft that are based on a nuclear capable bomber over the USSR without warning?
 
and to start with it was a design that came from English Electric

I'd forgoten about these Canberra variants, the originals were built at my local aerodrome. There were for years in the 80s a lineup of canberras due to a cancelled Argentina export...
 
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There were a number of RB-36 overflights in 1950-52, before the MiG-17 came in to the Soviet inventory, and RB-47s made a number of overflights as well. One in 1954 involved an RB-47E photo plane on a penetration over Kola, to get imagery of SAF long-range bomber bases. The crew was told prior to the mission that MiG-17s were not in the Kola region. Wrong. The RB took a 37-mm hit, but managed to get out via Finland, Sweden, and Norway, and found a KC-97 tanker with only 200 pounds of fuel left. They made their base in England after the tanker rendezvous. In 1956, there were 156 RB-47E Photo missions and RB-47H ELINT missions out of Thule that covered the entire Northern Border of the Soviet Union, and many of those involved penetrations of Soviet Airspace. Project Home Run was the code name for the missions, which have been declassified since the late 1990s and have been written up in several books.

Of course, there were two shootdowns: One RB-47 was lost to MiGs off of Kamchatka in 1955 (three crew MIA), while another was shot down in July, 1960 by a MiG-19, with one known KIA, two captured, and three still MIA.
 
I think the CIA preferred the U-2 for these reasons:

1. It had a lower radar signature compared to the RB-57D.

2. It could fly as high as 73,000 feet, which was well above the maximum altitude any Soviet jet fighter at the time.

3. It was a structurally more sound plane to fly at these altitudes.
 
The original U-2 was built to fly above the limit of soviet air defence capability, in order to provide photo evidence of the strength of the soviet bomber force.
It was a crash program that worked for that specific mission until improved air defences meant it could no longer operate safely over hostile air space. The plane capabilities meant it found other missions.
The RB57 couldn't perform those over the USSR missions.
The aircraft were complementary rather than competitors.
 

fred1451

Banned
They used to with the photorecon versions of the B-47 and B-36, along with that RB-57
Did they penetrate over the Soviet land mass, or did they just run the coast? And if they did penetrate, how far, and how close to sensitive targets?
 
Did they penetrate over the Soviet land mass, or did they just run the coast? And if they did penetrate, how far, and how close to sensitive targets?


Noril'sk, a closed secret city was probably the deepest RB-47 mission

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Noril'sk
 
Did they penetrate over the Soviet land mass, or did they just run the coast? And if they did penetrate, how far, and how close to sensitive targets?

hell yes !
even with RB-47, with U2 they cross it (official a weather plane that had lost direction)
after RB-47s were shot down by Soviet Air force and a U2 got hit by Soviet anti aircraft Missile.
They were replaced with A.12/SR-71 they fly with Mach 3.3 over Soviet Union
The soviet trow anything against them without success
for later U2 mission they fly with superior ECM system to fool the enemy air-foce and anti aircraft Missile
 
The A-12 never overflew the Soviet Union. It did over China, North Korea, and North Vietnam, though.

Project HOMERUN was the RB-47 overlight series over the Soviets' northern border. 156 sorties involving RB-47E photo planes and RB-47H ELINT aircraft. All based out of Thule, Greenland.
 
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