Martin Luther killed by Lighting

There's a story, perhaps a myth, that on his way to law school Martin Luther was nearly struck by lighting and having survived the close encounter he decided to become a monk.Supposing it's true,which I feel is a little questionable, what if that lighting killed him?

Did the protestant reformation need Martin Luther to happen? Criticisms that Martin made already happened and the person was burned. Perhaps, Luther was practically obstinate which facilitated the breaking up of christian religion. The violence that followed was very brutal for centuries war was made on the idea this place protestant were Catholics, kill them or vice-versa.

If there was no reformation was does that mean for the political ecosystem? That there is no freedom of religion and people would still be Catholic and have their daily lives by the Catholic church. The freedom of religion was largely adopted because people were tired of all of the violence.

I've heard that without the sectarian violence of Protestants and Catholics violence that the human race would be advanced five hundred years. I have also heard the opposite view that without the Protestant Reformation, and freedom of religion that was sparked from it, the world be rather backward as people would be punished for violating catholic dogma.

I've also heard that the Western Hemishere would be divided by Portuguese and Spain also,the theory is that basically people would listen to the Pope to have the New Continent divided along Spanish and Portuguese lines or there would be a stronger Iberian union that would last and the western Hemisphere would just basically be one Iberia with different segments being more Spanish or Portuguese or that the cultures would blend into a homogeneous culture since it had little political boundaries and monarchies would be the main government type, as secularism wouldn't rise without the infighting that the split created.

That being said, I feel that Protestant reformation,was somewhat invetiable due to the ability to reproduce works quickly thanks to the printing press. Not sure if the violence was necessarily inevitable but the way I see, no Luther there would still be a reformation just maybe not then, it would just be taken up by someone else for perhaps a different person for different reasons but a reformation would happen.
 
There's a story, perhaps a myth, that on his way to law school Martin Luther was nearly struck by lighting and having survived the close encounter he decided to become a monk.Supposing it's true,which I feel is a little questionable, what if that lighting killed him?

Did the protestant reformation need Martin Luther to happen? Criticisms that Martin made already happened and the person was burned. Perhaps, Luther was practically obstinate which facilitated the breaking up of christian religion. The violence that followed was very brutal for centuries war was made on the idea this place protestant were Catholics, kill them or vice-versa.

If there was no reformation was does that mean for the political ecosystem? That there is no freedom of religion and people would still be Catholic and have their daily lives by the Catholic church. The freedom of religion was largely adopted because people were tired of all of the violence.

I've heard that without the sectarian violence of Protestants and Catholics violence that the human race would be advanced five hundred years. I have also heard the opposite view that without the Protestant Reformation, and freedom of religion that was sparked from it, the world be rather backward as people would be punished for violating catholic dogma.

I've also heard that the Western Hemishere would be divided by Portuguese and Spain also,the theory is that basically people would listen to the Pope to have the New Continent divided along Spanish and Portuguese lines or there would be a stronger Iberian union that would last and the western Hemisphere would just basically be one Iberia with different segments being more Spanish or Portuguese or that the cultures would blend into a homogeneous culture since it had little political boundaries and monarchies would be the main government type, as secularism wouldn't rise without the infighting that the split created.

That being said, I feel that Protestant reformation,was somewhat invetiable due to the ability to reproduce works quickly thanks to the printing press. Not sure if the violence was necessarily inevitable but the way I see, no Luther there would still be a reformation just maybe not then, it would just be taken up by someone else for perhaps a different person for different reasons but a reformation would happen.

Hi, Lirisa, and welcome to AH.com! :D These are all good questions, but even if Luther were to die young, he wasn't to be the only notable reformer: Hans Zwingli and John Calvin would soon be around, and later on, Henry VIII would himself direct a split away from the RCC, thus midwifing the Anglican Church.
 
Although Martin Luther was an important catalyst, it would be a mistake to attribute the entire Protestant Reformation to him. The pressures that led to the schism had been building up for at least two centuries and it was only a matter of time until someone forced radical change. This desire for reform might have muted during the Middle Ages due to a lack of swift communication, but the printing press and increased mobility gave critics a real opportunity to coordinate and become a cohesive opposition movement.

What might change without Martin Luther is the direction and focus of the Reformation. Whoever emerges as the "leader" will largely dictate how the reformers frame themselves. This framing will, in turn, determine their base of supporters and how the Church reacts as an institution.
 
Without Luther I still think that the reformation would start in Germany. Germany was politically fractured enough to allow someone like Martin Luther to move from state to state seeking the protection of different nobles. There had been attempted reformers in other parts of Europe but those countries were far more unified under their national monarchs than Germany was under the Holy Roman Emperor.

If you want a reformation to start somewhere other than Germany than you need someplace as politically fractured. You could look at the Italian Peninsula, but it's too close to Rome. The only other place I can think of is the Austrian Empire. It's not as politically fractured as the HRE but you could have some oppressed ethnic group decide to split religiously. I do think it would be interesting to see an Irish centered reformation. I could see England staying Catholic out of spite.
 
Although Martin Luther was an important catalyst, it would be a mistake to attribute the entire Protestant Reformation to him. The pressures that led to the schism had been building up for at least two centuries and it was only a matter of time until someone forced radical change. This desire for reform might have muted during the Middle Ages due to a lack of swift communication, but the printing press and increased mobility gave critics a real opportunity to coordinate and become a cohesive opposition movement.

What might change without Martin Luther is the direction and focus of the Reformation. Whoever emerges as the "leader" will largely dictate how the reformers frame themselves. This framing will, in turn, determine their base of supporters and how the Church reacts as an institution.

I have wondered if the violence of the Protestant Reformation and the catholic response was influenced by Martin Luther's rather violent character, even if he personally only wished Catholicism to reform itself. He was pretty eager to advocate violence against revolutionaries.

I largely agree with both of you, the abuses of the catholic church were building up for a long time and a reform would happen but perhaps it may be of a different form or charterer.The violence that may or may not happen is largely speculative but I feel it's pretty safe to say, the Catholic Church would be opposed to most reform, as it was in history, with perhaps some minor reforms internally, and they would issue excommunications against the reformers.
 
Without Luther I still think that the reformation would start in Germany. Germany was politically fractured enough to allow someone like Martin Luther to move from state to state seeking the protection of different nobles. There had been attempted reformers in other parts of Europe but those countries were far more unified under their national monarchs than Germany was under the Holy Roman Emperor.

If you want a reformation to start somewhere other than Germany than you need someplace as politically fractured. You could look at the Italian Peninsula, but it's too close to Rome. The only other place I can think of is the Austrian Empire. It's not as politically fractured as the HRE but you could have some oppressed ethnic group decide to split religiously. I do think it would be interesting to see an Irish centered reformation. I could see England staying Catholic out of spite.

That seems pretty logical. Having his own duke vouch for him, his name escapes, is in part what allows him to have a trial instead of just branded a hertic. Martin's ideas allowed excuses for German princes to ignore or challenge Rome's church taxes. Without the kind of decentralizzation, it would be largely up to the whims of one person. I feel Switzerland would be a good be a good candidate for the origin of a different reformer, seeing as that is where Huldrych Zwingli came from.
 

Raunchel

Banned
The reformation would probably still happen without Luther, but what would be interesting to see is what would happen if he, after some time as a reformer, get hit by lightning. Would it be seen as a punishment by God? And would it make many people reconsider their beliefs?
 
There were widespread calls for church reform at this time. Zwingli came to his own conclusions independently of Luther. And of course there were some remaining Hussites and Lollards from the earlier movements Hus and Wycliffe launched. So Protestantism is not going to cease to exist altogether, although the particular form that became Lutheranism might not take form.

As for the Western Hemisphere being divided up between Spain and Portugal forever, that definitely was not going to happen. Protestantism wasn't the reason for that; the other nations simply thought the Pope had overstepped his bounds by dividing up the rest of the world between two countries. Catholic England sponsored John Cabot in 1497 (only three years after Tordesillas) and Catholic France sponsored Verazzano in 1524, and then Cartier a decade later.
 
First, there was almost certainly going to be a reformation of some kind with or without Luther, but without him there is a very real chance that it will be an internal fat trimming measure rather than a revolution (really, reformation is a terrible term for this. When your idea of dialogue is "give in to all my demands or die painfully" that's not reform, that's revolution). The Catholic church did reform itself massively during the counter-reformation, which shows that even in countries that didn't leave the church the demand for reform was high. Absent luther we may see the OTL counter reformation become TTL's reformation.

Secondly, Protestantism didn't change nearly as much as you think. People didn't just start mass killing their former neighbors on the basis of a religion change. Wars were fought in the interest of realpolitik, as they always have been and always will be. It should be telling that in the most destructive conflict of the wars of religion, The Thirty Years War, Catholic France was on the Protestant side.

Thirdly, any claims about how our technology would be drastically different are most likely bullshit. There would still have been massive conflicts in Germany as the political situation demanded it. The Emperor wanted control over his empire, and for the first time in a long time he had the means to force the issue, thanks to the Habsburg Empire. They were going to attempt to control the empire, and France was going to try to stop them, and all their neighbors were going to pick sides, and people were going to die and invent new ways of killing that would both hamper and help mankind's progress, and that's the long and short of it, reformation or no. Also, the Catholic Church has never systematically repressed scientific development (that is a common myth among protestants and secularists), so there is no basis in claiming that a Catholic Europe would be slower than a Catholic-Protestant one.

And, nobody ever respected the Treaty of Tordesillas, Catholic or no, so if the world becomes divided between Spain and Portugal it will be because those two nations managed to outcompete the rest of Europe combined (to be fair Spain had a decent shot at this in the 1500s, what with most of the Americas, Italy, and the Netherlands under their control already), not because of the pope and a piece of parchment.
 
There are a couple of other threads in a similar vein, although they have him miss the storm - and become a lawyer as he was supposed to.

WI: Martin Luther does not become a monk
RavenMM

TLC2: A Lawyer, Not A Monk
Roberto

The Protestant Reformation never happens
The Mists Of Time

What if…. No Martin Luther?
Hermanubis

related
just for thought... Martin Luther dies early.
matt the viking




buried in these are Martin Luther ones
32 PoDs and WIs (pre-1900)
John Fredrick Parker

Hardest ah challenge you can thin of (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5)
raamses66
 
Less Advanced World

Technology of the World would be 500-200 Years Behind Technology

Catholic Persecuted Scientists, Philosphers and Scholars

Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim and Jewish World would Be Quite More Advanced than the Catholic World
 
Uh... John Calvin and Zwingli silently rejoin Catholic Church and repent?

The Holy Roman Empire conquers the whole world, bringing in the Church Triumphant and Christ's Second Coming.:cool: That, or a dystopian Inquisition World that makes makes the Iranian Islamic Revolution on the worst day of its life look like Paradise on Earth.:eek:
 
Top