Marriages for the children of Queen Anne

Planning a timeline where James II and Mary of Modena die in 1687, thus meaning Mary becomes Queen, there is no Glorious Revolution and no Bill of Rights and Anne has surviving issue.

Her children:

Mary (b.1685)

Anne Sophia (b. 1686)

James (b.1687)

William (b. 1689)

My query is this, who could these children marry?

For James I was thinking Maria Josepha of Austria, daughter of Emperor Leopold by his third wife. Perhaps as part of an alliance during the War of Spanish Succession.

Mary could perhaps marry Frederick IV of Denmark?

Anne Sophia could perhaps be married to Frederick William of Prussia? or maybe George II of Hanover, though with Anne's dislike of George I I doubt it.
 

Philip

Donor
They won't be marrying for 15-20+ years into your TL. How have the politics developed? What children have been born?
 
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They won't be marrying for 15-20+ years into your TL. How have the politics developed? What children have been born?

Out of curiosity, how did Mary suddenly become so prolific?

Hmm this is true, I was thinking that William has been sidelined in the Netherlands, without Mary II's ascension in the glorious revolution, meaning the nine years war was reduced without British involvement. The War of the Spanish Succession is happening, and the tories have held dominance within Britain since Anne ascended the throne in 1694
 

Philip

Donor
How does the Nine Years' War end? Does France hold Lorraine? Spanish Netherlands? Who holds the Palantinate?

How goes the Great Turkish War? Did it end as per OTL?

Is the Great Northern War ongoing? Anne's husband might have some interest in how that goes.
 
How does the Nine Years' War end? Does France hold Lorraine? Spanish Netherlands? Who holds the Palantinate?

How goes the Great Turkish War? Did it end as per OTL?

Is the Great Northern War ongoing? Anne's husband might have some interest in how that goes.

Great Northern War starts in 1700 as otl, I'm thinking it hovers between Sweden and Denmark for a period of time.

I'm thinking the Great Turkish War might well end with some more gains for Austria.

Nine Years War, I'm thinking might end with France holding Lorraine, but perhaps fails to regain Pondicherry
 

Philip

Donor
If the NYW is going France's way, she can continue to occupy Lorraine. She probably can not take legal possession without finding some other land to give Leopold. IIRC one of the French plans for the Spanish Succession was to take Savoy and then trade Leopold for Lorraine. I'm not sure there is anything tradable available in the NYW.

As for the marriages, I'm assuming that boys are healthy enough that they can be expected to take the throne and produce heirs. I don't see the presumptive heir marrying a Catholic or even an ex-Catholic. Not sure if it would be legal in your TL, but it is hard to see it as politically acceptable. Depending on the laws, the younger son might be able to marry an ex-Catholic, but it would have to bring some great advantage. Some nice Protestant German prince is probably best.

The girls are likely treaty-bait. What does England want out of the WSS? Keeping the Spanish Netherlands out of French hands and preserving the Asiento seem likely goals. Who can help with this?

How are Anglo-Dutch relations? I suspect England and Scotland sitting out the NYW hasn't helped.
 
If the NYW is going France's way, she can continue to occupy Lorraine. She probably can not take legal possession without finding some other land to give Leopold. IIRC one of the French plans for the Spanish Succession was to take Savoy and then trade Leopold for Lorraine. I'm not sure there is anything tradable available in the NYW.

As for the marriages, I'm assuming that boys are healthy enough that they can be expected to take the throne and produce heirs. I don't see the presumptive heir marrying a Catholic or even an ex-Catholic. Not sure if it would be legal in your TL, but it is hard to see it as politically acceptable. Depending on the laws, the younger son might be able to marry an ex-Catholic, but it would have to bring some great advantage. Some nice Protestant German prince is probably best.

The girls are likely treaty-bait. What does England want out of the WSS? Keeping the Spanish Netherlands out of French hands and preserving the Asiento seem likely goals. Who can help with this?

How are Anglo-Dutch relations? I suspect England and Scotland sitting out the NYW hasn't helped.
This is true.

Ah interesting, there’s no bill of rights and no act of settlement so technically there’s no legal impediment to a marriage with a catholic. And from my readings it see,s thay the population would prefer a marriage to a Habsburg than to a French backed princess.

I’d imagine Hanover would be a big help.of not them maybe Prussia, or one of the other German states.

And Anglo Dutch relations are strained at this point due to Anne pulling out of the nyw
 

Philip

Donor
Agreed that a French marriage is right out. Based on what you've said, here are my ideas. Some of the candidates are post POD, so you may treat them as analogues if you wish.

Mary weds Charles Habsburg, Austrian candidate for Spanish throne.
Sophia Anne weds George of Hanover (OTL's Geoege II of Great Britain)
James weds yet to be identified German princess.
William weds Catherine Ivanova, niece of Peter the Great.

Rationale to follow when I have a few minutes to type.
 
Agreed that a French marriage is right out. Based on what you've said, here are my ideas. Some of the candidates are post POD, so you may treat them as analogues if you wish.

Mary weds Charles Habsburg, Austrian candidate for Spanish throne.
Sophia Anne weds George of Hanover (OTL's Geoege II of Great Britain)
James weds yet to be identified German princess.
William weds Catherine Ivanova, niece of Peter the Great.

Rationale to follow when I have a few minutes to type.

How about this rather:
Mary weds Karl (there were negotiations for a Danish match for Josef, and Anne's husband is a Danish prince, so Mary fills that criteria)
Anna Sophie marries Carl XII (he needs an ally for the Great Northern War, and a double Danish match was considered - he to Sofia Hedvig and first his sister Hedvig then Ulrika to Prince Carl or Prince Vilhelm of Denmark)
Jimmy weds Sophie Dorothea of Hannover or Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark (if Carl weds a Danish princess, then Jimmy is a less threatening-of-a-Kalmar-Union option to wed Ulrika). Otherwise, Ulrika weds Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia (as proposed, maybe Figuelotte of Hannover dies earlier, or is less impressed with her niece, or any number of reasons that the cousin match doesn't go off). Anne doesn't like Sophia/George I, but she had no problem with George II IIRC.
William weds Mary II's goddaughter, the princess Maria Amalie of Nassau-Dietz or some other suitably lower-down the totem pole.

This way, Carl gets an alliance with England/Denmark/Prussia; England gets an alliance with the Habsburgs (as well as a future queen of Spain); Parliament is happy cause they've got the choice of two Protestant queens-consort; and the Anglo-Dutch relations are smoothed over by the match between William, duke of Gloucester and the Nassau-Dietz girl.
 
How about this rather:
Mary weds Karl (there were negotiations for a Danish match for Josef, and Anne's husband is a Danish prince, so Mary fills that criteria)
Anna Sophie marries Carl XII (he needs an ally for the Great Northern War, and a double Danish match was considered - he to Sofia Hedvig and first his sister Hedvig then Ulrika to Prince Carl or Prince Vilhelm of Denmark)
Jimmy weds Sophie Dorothea of Hannover or Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark (if Carl weds a Danish princess, then Jimmy is a less threatening-of-a-Kalmar-Union option to wed Ulrika). Otherwise, Ulrika weds Friedrich Wilhelm of Prussia (as proposed, maybe Figuelotte of Hannover dies earlier, or is less impressed with her niece, or any number of reasons that the cousin match doesn't go off). Anne doesn't like Sophia/George I, but she had no problem with George II IIRC.
William weds Mary II's goddaughter, the princess Maria Amalie of Nassau-Dietz or some other suitably lower-down the totem pole.

This way, Carl gets an alliance with England/Denmark/Prussia; England gets an alliance with the Habsburgs (as well as a future queen of Spain); Parliament is happy cause they've got the choice of two Protestant queens-consort; and the Anglo-Dutch relations are smoothed over by the match between William, duke of Gloucester and the Nassau-Dietz girl.
Interesting, so it would be for certain then that James wouldn’t wed a Habsburg girl?
 
Interesting, so it would be for certain then that James wouldn’t wed a Habsburg girl?

I think after the last English-Habsburg match they'd be a bit leery of it. An English princess for a Habsburg prince is fine - but only if there's no way she/her heirs are gonna inherit the throne in a non-King Yakko of Anvilania situation where as Yakko sings, he's the:

Cousin through the sister of the son’s niece’s brother of the uncle’s daughter’s father of the nephew’s sister’s mother and my grandpa’s only cousin was the king’s daughter’s sibling

Which if someone could explain what that makes him, besides a distant cousin, I'd be most grateful.
 
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I think after the last English-Habsburg match they'd be a bit leery of it. An English princess for a Habsburg prince is fine - but only if there's no way she/her heirs are gonna inherit the throne in a non-King Yakko of Anvilania situation where as Yakko sings, he's the:

Lol alrighty, also was looking through the daughters for Christian V of Denmark and couldn't find a Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark, unless you meant Carl XI of Sweden's wife?
 
Lol alrighty, also was looking through the daughters for Christian V of Denmark and couldn't find a Ulrike Eleonora of Denmark, unless you meant Carl XI of Sweden's wife?

Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden, Carl XII's sister. After older sis married the duke of Holstein, and the Danes wanted a double match with Sweden, she was offered for Prince Carl or Prince Vilhelm of Denmark, while her brother (Carl XII) would marry Sofia Hedvig of Denmark.
 
Ulrika Eleonora of Sweden, Carl XII's sister. After older sis married the duke of Holstein, and the Danes wanted a double match with Sweden, she was offered for Prince Carl or Prince Vilhelm of Denmark, while her brother (Carl XII) would marry Sofia Hedvig of Denmark.

Ah I get you, sorry misread that aha.

So, who might be a preferable marriage here then, Ulrika who had a questionable fertility rate otl, or Sophie Dorothea who popped out a fair few children
 
Ah I get you, sorry misread that aha.

So, who might be a preferable marriage here then, Ulrika who had a questionable fertility rate otl, or Sophie Dorothea who popped out a fair few children

Ulrika's fertility rate could've been down to any number of factors. But the fact that she had two miscarriages in the 1710s (shortly after her marriage), and hadn't given up hope of an heir before the mid-1720s, says that her fertility isn't as problematic as commonly supposed. It could've been her husband - he was a skirtchaser IIRC, so he could also have been the one to give her something besides a baby when they had sex.

I think Ulrika would probably be the front runner - royal princess, big dowry, plus Queen Anne's dislike of her Hannoverian cousins - with Sophie Dorothea being the second choice.
 
Ulrika's fertility rate could've been down to any number of factors. But the fact that she had two miscarriages in the 1710s (shortly after her marriage), and hadn't given up hope of an heir before the mid-1720s, says that her fertility isn't as problematic as commonly supposed. It could've been her husband - he was a skirtchaser IIRC, so he could also have been the one to give her something besides a baby when they had sex.

I think Ulrika would probably be the front runner - royal princess, big dowry, plus Queen Anne's dislike of her Hannoverian cousins - with Sophie Dorothea being the second choice.

Alright that sounds good, plus it could play into the role that I imagine Anne, or rather James would want as the great negotiator.

This does also raise an interesting question regarding Sweden, and if Charles XII still dies without issue, I imagine Holstein Gottorp would be getting onto the throne no issues.
 
So, this does make me wonder, how likely is it that Karl could get Spain in the war? If he's married to Mary, that gives the English even more incentive to see him placed on the throne.
 
Which if someone could explain what that makes him, besides a distant cousin, I'd be most grateful.[/QUOTE]

Cousin-in-law around 8 corners.;)
 
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